103 smd resistor

Amazon's recent recommendations are getting more and more creepy. Every time I log in, I see a list of new Blinky LEDs, Raspberry Pi accessories, Arduino shields, etc. Like they

I. When they recommended a $22 transistor/component tester, their customer database paid off. I have seen a lot of testers recently. Curiosity made me better, and my mouse found a "one-click purchase" way. Two days later, I was holding a "SainSmart Mega328 Transistor Tester, Diode Transistor Capacitance ESR Meter MOS / PNP / NPN L / C / R" in my hand.

I will remove the obvious obstacles. This thing is cheap to build-as cheap as a factory made. My particular device came with a soft LCD flap and hung on its flexible cable. After reinstalling the LCD back into the acrylic backlight frame, it was found that the distortion at the same bend was somewhat worrying. Thankfully, there is actually no damage, although I do hope to provide some protection for the flexible cable in the future. talk about it later. The circuit is open to the world and can be seen on the bottom of the tester. The heart of this unit is ATmega328. It is supported by some transistors and a few passive devices.

I don't have much expectations for the tester, but I hope it can at least start. Connect the 9-volt battery and press the magic button to bring the tester to life. Since there is nothing in my socket, it quickly lights up and displays the manufacturer information-"91make.taobao.com" and "Efan&HaoQixin", and then it tells me that I have "No, unknown or damaged parts".

I put a few resistors around the workbench (not everyone?), so I put one. The tester reads it as 9881 ohms. Sure enough, it is a 10K 5% resistor. Capacitor-ceramic disc, electrolytic and surface mount can all work normally. The tester even provides an ESR value. The real test will be transistors. I pulled an old 2N2222 with a TO-18 metal can and popped it into the tester. The damn thing worked-it shows the schematic symbol of an NPN transistor with its collector, base and emitter connected to pins 1, 2 and 3 respectively. It is also possible to flip the pins and retest. The tester shows that hFe is 216 and the forward voltage is 692 mV. For 2N2222, these two numbers are reasonable.

The tester works well, and surprisingly-it can correctly identify BJT, FET, and even esoteric parts. The only thing it prevents is the linear regulator, which is shown as two diodes. The regulator is just a simple device, so I can't blame the tester there. The returned values ​​are also reasonable. Although I don't have a calibrated laboratory, the numbers are consistent with my Fluke meter.

So what drives this little tester? There are about 20 versions on the market, all of which are from China.

 It is a seller on taobao.com, usually called "China's eBay". There are no less than 7 versions of transistor testers on 91make's homepage, including various enclosures and LCDs. Some digging discovered the history on the device. It turns out that the transistor tester is a

 (

) Was originally created by [Markus Frejek] and by [Karl-Heinz K? ubbeler] and some others. of

 The project shows that the project is very active and the last check-in was only a few hours ago. The project is also well documented. The English PDF is 103 pages, explaining the working principle, the circuit itself and the software. The document even explains some shortcomings of the Chinese version of the tester, including the use of Zener diodes, and the original schematic requires the use of an accurate 2.5V reference voltage. Yes, it works, but it will not be as accurate as the original.

Considering that each manufacturer adopts its own version of the quality and design changes, the developers do not officially support the clone that I can understand. Have a

 Cover these testers. Some can be modified to be closer to the official version. In fact, using ISP tools, brave hackers can update the firmware to the current version from [Karl-Heinz's] repository.

Therefore, the final conclusion of the tester is that it carries a little warning. The cost of these testers is reduced (the cost is as close to zero as possible). They are very suitable for sorting parts, but they are not a substitute for higher quality measuring equipment. I also hope to see a version that supports the original developer.

I also have this tester design, and I must say that it is definitely worth about $15 on eBay. However, it would be nice to have a more standard version, because I am not even sure how to enter the settings menu of this customized "efan" version.

Can this particular tester be updated to the latest "mainstream" firmware? I know that the display device differs between multiple different tester clones, some of which are not fully supported in the main firmware. Last time I checked, the main firmware did not support the '128×64' display on this tester, with an unusual driver chip, maybe now?

For this particular model, another thing I think is worth mentioning is the annoying position of the feet, where the buttons and test sockets are suspended in the air away from the support area of ​​the circuit board, and the entire tester seesaws back and forth during operation. zif socket/press the button. In fact, this is indeed an annoying design oversight.

Do you have feet? My board does not have such luxury. May have been cancelled as a cost-cutting measure.

I stuck it with some cheap port freight rubber grommets and the problem disappeared.

Can I get a link to the exact model you have?

This is my exact link:

However, when I purchased it a few weeks ago, its inventory was already used for main shipment.

The order has been placed! I have a parts tray dating back to the 1970s with forgotten part IDs and pinouts. This thing will pay for itself within an hour.

My first one failed, so I had to buy a new one.

The flat ribbon connector of the monitor will eventually break due to bending stress, so if this is not the case, please don't mess it up.

Let me say it again: don't choose if there is no case. The flexible cable will break within a few weeks. Spend extra money on a protective sleeve version that protects the display cable.

I used a laser cutter to cut a box from acrylic. If anyone is interested, I can post a link to the file to respond to this comment. (Need to enter the space to get/convert them-it takes several hours.)

This unit is very useful. It can detect the "type" of the device and display useful information such as the effective capacitance of the diode, the beta of the transistor, etc. It can even find out which clues are (E, B, C).

I made a set of alligator clips connected to the zif socket.

I recommend this as a good choice.

my situation:

try again. my situation:

If possible, I would really like to provide you with documents. I just ordered one, which will save time for my own design. Thank you!

This is a very cool gadget. What a pity is the construction of Chinese quality. I did go through the project page (at least briefly), but I couldn't find a reference to buy hardware. I did find the DIY version (

), the price is $15.49 USD.

All models I have seen have 2*16 character display or graphic LCD display. And 14-pin ZIF socket, or some form of three-pin connection.

I have this version

I like it very much. The accuracy is sufficient to meet my requirements, and I found myself using the surface mount pad on it to test the components.

It looks like the Fish8840 version. You can implement a mod to prevent it from unnecessarily discharging the battery when it is "off".

cool. I will look for it. Thank you!

This is a website where someone has tested this version.

I think I was on the same day, just the day before. I admit that everything else seems equivalent between the two different things Autobot, Red Paint and "DROK". Except for the absence of a battery clip somewhere in the assembly, it looks very sturdy and can effectively find those small things without having to extinguish it with a magnifying glass.

I have a model with a 2×16 character display. I installed it in a cheap plastic food container and used it when using solid gears (as opposed to vacuum tubes). This is mainly a quick way to check transistors or weird parts, I can't read the marks completely. It has been used for more than a year, even if the battery voltage drops to 8.2v, it can still work normally

Are you using in-circuit (no power) readings?

Adam,

You did not mention your Zener tube or 2.5 Volt regulator.

I guess it is using Zener because it is made in China.

Can your firmware be updated (easily)?

How far is your current firmware from the current version?

Thank you!

It is great to see that the "Transistor Checker" also measures passive components.

Oh, have you tried inductors?

My version is Zener. There is an ISP header, so it can be programmed. However, the LCD backlight must be removed to solder the plug down. I haven't tried the coil yet-I need to find one in the parts box and try it!

You don't have to remove the backlight-the 6 pins next to the back of the crystal are also ISP connectors. All you have to do is to create a mirrored ISP connector to use them.

But in that case, you really need to work harder.

My understanding is that the external reference will not have much impact on the proper accuracy of the crystal version and key resistors because the internal calibration procedure will make appropriate compensation.

In other words, to run the self-test, short-circuit all three channels before starting the device. This will trigger a self-test of all the variants I have tried. Follow the instructions. It will perform some tests on the channel short circuit, and then ask you to remove the short circuit, perform some more tests, and finally, require an upper limit of> 100nF between channels 1 and 3. I didn't double check, but I was beautiful to make sure that all the versions I tried utilize options in the mainline firmware to store test results to calibrate the instrument.

Zener diodes are temperature-dependent, so calibration will not help.

For such a simple and cheap device, this is a surprising feature list. Will have to get one. Thanks for your comments, especially looking for the real author!

I have a question. Looking at the schematic, I can find out how it implements each measurement/test (except inductance). I know the only way to make a measurement is to add a capacitor and see at what frequency the resulting LC circuit oscillates. But there is no capacitor. Unless they somehow (by mistake) use the internal sample-and-hold capacitor on ATmega's ADC pin as the C part of the LC, and since this is so small, it may explain why it can't measure the size below 10uH; but This is just a crazy guess. Who can determine how the device measures inductance?

If there is a resistor in series with the device, when you change the voltage step, you can measure the current (through its voltage) flowing through the resistor over time. The capacitor jumps high and the attenuation is low, and the inductor rises low and grows exponentially.

Measure the exponential slope and reverse the timing formula to obtain the inductance.

The slope of the exponent is – ta da! exponentially.

PWalsh's answer is as follows-but you should definitely check the English "Doku" pdf in the original svn repository I linked. Section 5.4 explains the measurement of inductance and even includes graphs of multiple measurements (and related errors) made with various ATmega devices.

Thank you [PWalsh] and [Adam Fabio]. I don't think that increasing the current through a resistor is a feasible method because the time constant is usually very small. However, after some searching on SVN, I found the description. There is a comparator on one of the ATmega pins used for measurement, and a timer, which can measure with the required resolution. Now it makes sense, thank you both again!

It seems that it will take a long time to review this. These testers have been around for a long time.

I agree. Good cheap gadgets. But like shit. But this does come from China. Cheap land.

nonsense. My most expensive gear is made in China, and my moderately priced gear is designed and made in China.

If China is cheap land, it's not because they can or can do it. No one else can do anything cheap, at least not yet.

Yes, these things are cheap. You can ship them to you on eBay for less than $15. And, for less than $20, you can get a product that is very close to the original schematic. It has through-hole parts and a socketed MCU, which is easy to hack. Look for GM328 from EZM Electronics studio. For devices without a casing, the quality is not bad.

Your expensive equipment is "Made in China" for a reason. China can do very well (KZ is one of my favorite IEMs), but usually few people do.

Dude, it’s not where the difference is made! These things are low-cost, because someone figured out how to do the job by using cheap parts (such as atmega chips). The old test equipment relied on many individual components, which only increased production costs due to the large circuits and boxes. When software can be used instead of hardware to complete the work, it can be expected that prices will drop.

Adam, when you check official sources, is there a place to pre-build official kits or official kits? Browsing SVN and translated pages do not point to the official publisher. I hope to get one from them (or EEVblog supply chain), but if it doesn't exist, then chinese-ebay seems to be good enough to be added to my tool shelf.

I have a bunch of PNPs that could match some guitar effects, but they have been sitting there for several years. The price of $30 or even $50 that encouraged me to build some pedals is small.

I do hope to link to the official version in the article, but I have no such luck. The best place to ask is probably the EEVblog forum-[madires], where frequent visitors say he is one of the developers.

Do you need a curve tracer to match transistors? According to the instructions, this tool cannot help you. Nowadays, you'd better buy matched transistor pairs on the chip.

Except occasionally, I don’t think there is any other content. Look for the "GM328" version on eBay. It should have a green PCB, MCU with sockets and (mainly) through-hole components. My understanding is that it is very close to the original design.

I haven't figured out how to order directly from Taobao, but the Chinese eBay sellers who sell these products have reasonable prices and fast delivery.

Hmm... "group buying", not "group buying"

This is also one of the cheapest ways to get an ESR tester-a girl's best friend when repairing electronic products.

When I decided that I could use avr for testing, I was fully armed with an AC test board and determined the basis of the transistor (NPN or PNP?), which quickly resulted in me only spending $8 (I have a text screen instead of graphics Screen) to get one of them. Great tool, I can read inductors and small capacitors that cannot be reached by the settings on the meter. It didn't tell me what pin is what transistor, there is no data in the world, but pointed out that I have a lot of JFETS and to-92 SCR (talking becomes dizzy!).

This is much cheaper than making your own open source software. It is very interesting to clean the hard-to-identify parts in the trash can. I went through my TO-3 and found that 40% of it was just scrap metal.

Please note that if it enters "calibration mode", it is because you have a "direct short circuit" between all 3 pins (it burns TO-3 every time)

It is recommended to make a wall power adapter for it!

(Is this a "22" ceramic 22pf of 200pf?)

Regarding open source topics, I have been looking for a copy of the AVR code to load into the Atmel 328, and I have a lot on hand. I have not been able to find a good working copy to burn. $8 is definitely cheap enough, just buy one. Just want to know, if I have, plug the chip into the Arduino and see if the files will be transferred to my laptop. I have been studying schematics and thinking about building a prototype on only a prototype board to see if I can make it work.

A few years ago, when I bought BK Precision's circuit transistor tester at a real estate auction, I had no market for transistor testers. However, it is great to see kits or self-made projects for other test equipment.

Yes, I own one of BK's transistor checkers and bought it at auction for $10.

The 2 testers I have are not from China:

with

The Simpsons are very simple, but the leader has a lot of chips, starting in the 1980s and even earlier. It can automatically identify bipolar and FET, and perform some other simple tests. But they all have charms; in "Death within a week," eBay miraculously missed...

Simpson 260 reminds me of the college days in the 70s. The transistor tester is an optional module.

Wow! The analog multimeter is still on sale.

Yes, its price is only $330

. This is 16 times that of the testers in question. I am sure that Simpson may be able to pass it to your grandchildren (my father has a Simpson multimeter, he occasionally uses it for car inspections, and it works), but it is apples and oranges.

I don't want to be a troll, I just want to know what the price is and want to publish it.

I really appreciate this tester. A long time ago, when I joined the local microcontroller club, I would recommend this device to people. This is an old version with a 2x16LCD. Its manufacturing cost is definitely much higher than the current eBay price, but it is the best choice for a multimeter.

It definitely arouses my interest...I have tried to design something like this, called TPIder (three-pin identifier)...I put in a lot of work, but it didn't go too far. I am glad to see the possibility!

So, wait, have I correctly understood that this thing can actually identify the pin? Just like you can plug in any three-pin transistor/FET/plug in any orientation, will it provide you with polarity, pin assignments (and more)?

exxxcelllennnntttt.

A very simple double junction transistor checker, requires PIC10F202 or AtTiny13a (both source codes are available in

)

Details (French)

The checker only tells whether the transistor is normal and whether it is PNP or NPN.

Blinking green LED lights up NPN transistor

Blinking red LED good PNP particle separator

Hmm...very high usability and ease of use, but poor build quality and update capabilities. This looks like Adafruit's work or work that needs improvement. I think people will spend some extra money to buy some useful things, but these things are not ready and not available as tool kits.

HF also has its multi-meters, which can test inductors, semiconductors, etc. (and the price is much cheaper), but I did not use them for the accuracy of these capabilities.

It turns out that for less than $30, EBay has a large number of such products-although there is no firmware upgradeability...

I should probably get off the car, end a video, and start comparing the three different versions of the device.

However, at the same time, I learned that most of the versions on eBay come from about 3 different small electronic equipment companies in China. Adam identified one of them, "91Make", but there are Fish8840 and EZM Electronics studios. They all provide bare metal versions like this, and in the case of "finished" models.

They have not released firmware updates, nor have they released the source of their firmware versions. Fish8840 and 91Make seem to have made quite extensive changes to the mainline firmware of the graphic display. EZM seems to be very close to the main line. Fortunately, by changing some configuration options in the makefile and recompiling, people have successfully obtained the latest versions of all three manufacturers to use the mainline firmware. Detailed information is in this thread in EEVBlog, starting from page 54 or so.

I think the 91Make version does the best in terms of output on the graphic display. There are many problems with the Fish8840 version. I think that the graphics of various transistors are too heavy and difficult to read, and the design of the power supply section is a bit silly, resulting in wasted battery when "off". (There is a video on how to fix it, the fix may even record the mainline firmware in the document).

The EZM Electronics Studio version is probably my favorite version because out of the box, it supports all the options in the mainline firmware, and because it uses a socketed MCU and (mostly) through-hole components with appropriate tolerances. The downside is that because it uses the mainline firmware, the use of its graphic display is not so complete, and the SMD device test board may be the most inflexible of the three designs.

The electronic version of EZM is usually listed using "GM328" in the title on ebay, and the MCU with slot and through-hole components are obvious in the product photos of this version with graphic display, but for the version with two versions The display is very fuzzy line text display. They recently released an SMD version, which may be listed as GM328A. Their "finished" version in the enclosure is usually labeled "MK-328" and comes with three leads/test clips and a module with ZIF sockets and SMD test pads.

I would be very surprised if the firmware cannot be updated from the final version of EZM or any other manufacturer.

The firmware/hardware/documentation of Fish8840 version can be found here-

What a coincidence! I have ordered this version and will be assembled today:

This part uses high-quality parts: TL431AA precision voltage reference, professional PCB with good layout, electroplating and silk screen, and all parts are through holes, easy to assemble. I will also connect the ISP connector to upgrade the firmware.

The documentation in the SVN repository is excellent, with a very thorough accuracy comparison with professional measuring instruments. Cheap, useful, well-made and easy to crack-check all the boxes!

Does anyone offer a link to purchase pre-assembled with 2.5V precision reference?

When I put a Darlington transistor on the V2.07 software, it gave the correct forward voltage of 1.13 volts, but only said "PNP", I think it should say "PNP Darlington" or abbreviation. For BD648 (unused), Hfe of 44 seems a bit low, but I realize that the test current may not be enough to support the power transistor.

Now, I want to return to this page and read more, but the page has used up 3.246 megabytes of mobile data. In New Zealand, mobile data is very expensive. Data used to last for a long time at a slow 54k speed, but it is still There is no super fast internet. Websites due to lack of data (I call obesity websites)

Unused (TO22 case) SCR BT151, shown as NPN cathode (emitter) anode (gate), gate (base)

hFE = 0, Uf = 0 mV

I have designed a case suitable for 3D printing for the case of the device. If you don't have a printer yourself, you can order 3D printing in several places.

How difficult will it be to replace the Zener diode with a 2.5v reference voltage?

Use the originally designed lt1004? It may not be difficult at all (unless the Zener tube is buried by other things.) Just untie the Zener tube, and then solder lt1004 in the proper position (get one of the through-hole models, and then only solder the foot Just go to the pad.)

It shows that it only uses 2 pins, even though the to-92 version has 3 pins, and the 8-pin version has 2 pins. )

If you have a cheaper (perhaps less precise) product than LM431,

), you need to make a small daughter board because it requires several passive components.

In fact, one of the manufacturers only needs to tie the cathode and refV pins together to use the LM431 (cathode, anode and refV pins) without any passive components. see

Sorry, this thread came back from the dead, but I just learned about these great little testers. I am an electronics enthusiast (not EE), but these are very helpful for identifying the components in the parts box. Despite reading the comments here and on EEVBlog, it is difficult to track what it is. Can I use specific models or keywords to find the latest/(agreed) best version purchased on Aliexpress, Banggood, eBay, etc.? Thank you.

I am also very interested in current suggestions! The idea of ​​rejuvenating the thread again!

I want to transcode the encoding. do you have?

I have been for a while. They work very well, which means that the price is so low.

The power of my computer is broken. I removed 4 1000uf electrolytic capacitors and checked them with this small tool. All 4 of them are shown as diodes in some way. I went back to eBay and found a unit with the same appearance. The description says that the capacitance range is 25pf -100,000 uf, so 1000uf is covered.

Is there a problem with my meter? Or are all four caps broken at the same time?

Use the test cap carefully. Before connecting, you must discharge them by shorting their leads, because the stored energy surge will blow them up. There is also discussion in the EEVblog thread about setting up the protection circuit, but I don't remember which page of the thread.

You may want to try some other known good components to verify whether your tester is still spared.

When testing inductors below 1000uH, I am not satisfied with its performance. There is also a project for precision LC meters. Unfortunately, the transistor tester did not borrow anything from it.

Can you link to this project?

For anyone who wants to know which version to use, I have limited experience. I was and still confused about all the versions out there.

I just prepared a version for myself, which is obviously called the AY-AT kit (although you can't find a version with this keyword on the store site and it is not called in the official manual).

There are two (as far as I know) versions of the kit (already mentioned in the official manual and can be seen on the shop floor), one version has a 128×64 (controller ST7565) display, and a newer version With 160×128 color display (controller ST7735). ). I got a 160×128 color monitor. This is a great comment link:

It includes a link:

The current official manual (link to the repository mentioned in the comments):

Forum mentioned in the comments):

Why use the kit:

The device uses 99% through-hole components, and these SMDs have been soldered to the PCB. If required, it is easier to modify than the version with SMD components.

caveat:

Show carefully. The display is connected to the display module PCB by only 2 flat cables. If you turn the display over, it will hang on the flat cable and it will be easily cut. Tape the display to the display PCB immediately, after which you can do some more permanent things, such as hot glue or the actual packaging box or others. I know this. I still flipped the monitor before applying the tape, but luckily the cable was ok.

Someone has scratched a scratch on the PCB, the scratch has cut a trace, and the device is not working properly, so before soldering, please check whether there is a scratch on the PCB and test the trace for any doubt.

advantage:

Easy to assemble, easy to modify, the beautiful display has a voltage reference (TL431) instead of a Zener diode, but obviously it is not a good voltage reference, so it may need to be replaced.

harm:

The precision resistors R1 to R6 (in the official manual, R9 to R14 in the linked comments) (680 and 470K respectively, 3 times each type) are not very precise. I will replace them with real precision resistors.

This version comes with quite old software 1.12k. The official software version is 1.27. Although it means that I will lose the temperature sensor and IR test, I will update it as soon as possible, but at least I will get new part tests and servo tests.

The MCU programming pins have not yet been placed on the PCB, so I have to figure out, put some kind of wires and connectors, or just remove the MCU from the socket and program it separately.

As mentioned earlier, the monitor is just hanging on a flat cable, which is not good.

TL431 is obviously not a good reference voltage (2.5V). Alternatives are recommended in forums LM285 or LM4040 or other forums. I need to investigate.

The voltage regulator (7550) may not be very good either. I need to investigate.

The frequency terminal is not buffered.

ugly:

As mentioned in the official manual, the color display is not very fast, but it is fast enough for me. Color is useless.

Since there are various connectors on each edge of the PCB, it is a big challenge to design a housing to include the battery, not just make the entire assembly taller.

SMD pad number is wrong. 1 == TP1, 2 == TP3 and 3 == TP2.

The kit I got is not equipped with capacitors for self-checking, but I have a lot of parts, so this is not a problem for me. Maybe other sellers include one.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, I just understood this, but I definitely don't fully understand the other versions, so please decide for yourself. I like this version because I can make it better/easier. Check the different versions in the official manual, although the difference between the two is not simple.

good luck.

I followed this topic and have not answered my question several times. Does this tester check the components in the circuit? ? ? ? ? ?

Thank you! ! ! ! !

Basically yes, if you connect the wire to the test point, but what you actually want to test is the overall effect of the circuit, not the overall effect of the components. Just like you can test a single resistor in a circuit, but if you have parallel resistors (and the parallel resistors may not only be actual resistors), it will show the combined effect of the resistors. The tester cannot electrically isolate the components from the circuit.

Like I have this component, I want to figure it out. When I used a multimeter to measure online, it gave me different results from when I removed it.

If you know what the complete circuit will produce, then it can be used to test faulty components.

I ran into a problem on the Sonoff board where the voltage regulator on the board heated up (in this case, enough to make a nice crater.) I had to start cutting one trace at a time to isolate the resistor, diode, Zener diode and transformer, look at it almost dying (it turned out to be a Zener diode. I replaced it, jumped across the cut marks, and now it works fine. What's interesting is that even if all the power comes, the regulator does During heating) output from the output voltage of 3.3V. I did not test it under 110V AC voltage, although I still used it when I noticed that it was very hot. )

It would be great if you can test in the appropriate place and be able to determine whether the part meets the specifications, but in this case, I can only know the regulator by comparing the initial reading with a good quality board The "4ohm" reading on the screen exceeded the expected specification, and then began to cut the part until it returned to the expected level.

TL; DR number

As jii said, it will test the parallel/serial combination of the component under test and other components in the circuit. Therefore, it will not bring you a meaningful test.

The ESR measurement value it provides for the capacitor is meaningless, because unlike the online ESR meter, it will far exceed the voltage above 600mV, which will open the semiconductor junction.

I have the V1.10 (2016?) version of this component test board, which has a rotary button dial on the lower left side, and is placed in the kit. Does anyone own the BOM or where are these 29 resistors? They are screen printed, but there is no value on the board.

true? Mine have value, but they are under resistance. Does the wording similar to 2578AY-AT appear next to the dial (very small, located on the right edge of the dial)?

No, that is the AY-AT version, the battery input is at the bottom? I did get a schematic of my circuit board (battery input on the right) from the seller in an e-mail with all components (for example, R1 10K) marked in the e-mail. It should have been included in the list, but it is not.

The first thing to try is to find AliExpress, bangood or other sellers you have bought anywhere. The image is small, but you should be able to see the correct value. If not, please ask for more help.

Interestingly, this thing almost never correctly recognizes J201 jfet (I have several products from different manufacturers), and 90% of the time it recognizes them as transistors.

Maybe a firmware update is needed?

Can anyone guide me how to use it to measure frequency? How to use it as a signal generator?

Thank you.

Great article, you can write an article on how to update the firmware of these meters to the latest. Thank you

"Update" is not a simple project IMHO!

For big pictures, there are new perversions... Oh, I mean, PERMUTATIONS :-) is still developing beyond the one depicted in this article in 2015. I recently (12/2020) bought 2 from different suppliers, it looks a lot like the one here, but replaced the two small diodes with 2 resistors (the drop voltage of the LCD display)...maybe others I haven't noticed the changes. They work very well, there is no M-Tester that provides manufacturer or version information. I did not test all features. They come with a "lock bit setting", so if you refresh the new code, you cannot restore it because you cannot read the code. No step back!

This is a recent tree showing the species supported by the community: each directory has a Makefile, which mainly deals with differences, so the code is #ifdefs's mouse nest!

PS I: \jays_lcr_t4\trunk> tree

Folder PATH list

Volume serial number is 8003-EDED

I:.

├───ILI9163

├───Obj

│└───mega328_T4_v2_st7565

│└───Department

├───ST7735

├───arduino_m2560

├───arduino_uno

├───default

├─── Department

├───font

├───mega168_1.9V

├───mega168_3.3V

├───mega168_strip_grid

├───mega328

├───mega328_1.9V

├───mega328_2X16_menu

├───mega328_3.3V

├───mega328_GM328

├───mega328_MK-328

├───mega328_PCF8812

├───mega328_PCF8814

├───mega328_T3_T4_st7565

├───mega328_T4_v2_st7565

good luck!

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There, after twenty minutes of handing over, you can view all kinds of storage boxes. Thinwire Ethernet network. It is about the smallest Thinwire Ethernet network. It is a bent BNC lead, about 100mm long, and is covered with T-pieces and 50 ohm terminator at both ends. I have been looking for BNC T-pieces on which I can connect another terminator to a test device, and I found two of them.

When I was preparing to take the test, I found myself considering the absurdity of this situation. I last worked with Thinwire in the mid-1990s, and luckily, I probably never met another person. If you have never encountered Thinwire, thank you very much. A coaxial cable connects all computers on the network, and on that computer, the smallest failure will cause all failures.

So why do I insist on making all parts, even though it may be the smallest variant? Some kind of souvenir that reminds me of the good old days. Is it running in the office with a cable tester? Or am I just going back to the past as a collector, like a Tolkien dragon perching on the top of an e-waste mountain instead of

?

For many readers, the following story may be a familiar story, which is one of the things that may be useful for a certain day in a large number of boxes, or even one of the things that is too unreasonable. There may be some readers that this is not a problem, but I doubt that I will try it alone from time to time, so it is worth studying. Why do we do this and what strategies can be adopted to mitigate it?

Decades ago, ordering electronic components was a rather slow and expensive process. The mail order company has a limited number of paper catalogs, and the quantity is limited. Your order must go through two postal delays to reach the supplier, and then the parts enter you again. This is written from a small country, and I can only imagine additional delays when the order must cross a continent.

Therefore, there was a culture of accumulating electronic waste at that time. Especially if you are a rude teenager

There is no online next-day delivery service, and even if there is, you may not be able to afford it. People rely on dead electronic parts as a source of parts and exchange other parts. They may still grab a lot of feature kits on the way. After all, if it works, it would be too lost, right?

If your course follows my course, you will know where the course is going. After several years of electronic efforts, even if it is not a complete Tolkien, I still have a treasure close to the proportion of a mini-dragon. I have enough space, but even I know it’s a bit out of control. Something must be done.

It is important to understand that in order to successfully handle matters of this nature, the persons involved must be aware that this has become a problem. People will spare no effort to tell them, but this is not constructive, because the solution here must come from within. Disposing of a large amount of garbage is a daunting prospect, and increasing stress or stress will not alleviate the situation.

A few years ago, the way I chose to do this was to apply a rigorous evaluation strategy to each project, and to adopt a set of standards applicable to it and determine its fate. I looked at the value, usefulness, and how long it has been since I used or even looked at the project, and used the information I found to inform my decision.

The value is easy. How much is it worth? If it was a damage to the time base panel of a Philips TV in the 1970s, it might not be. To the trash can! More difficult is the intangible value. Does this remind me of anything? For example, in my student broadcast, this is the non-functional prototype amplifier board I used. I did it, thinking of the good time spent in the cramped studio. But will this reappear in my life? Let's face it, no. In the trash can.

Surprisingly, it was full of old parts. Other chips with date codes of the 1970s and 1980s are stuffed into the cookie jar. I never expected to be confused about this, so I consulted Google about the obscure part number, just wondering what I got. Finally, I continue to list some old sales examples, which are all stuck on a piece of conductive foam. I will never need a few 68000 or Z80 holders with supporting chips, but at least they only take up very little space.

Usefulness couldn't be simpler. Tools, please continue to use. Motors are another matter. You know what's going on, tear something apart, put some motors in the end and put them aside because they are too good to be thrown away. I started putting all the motors I found into plastic buckets, thinking that I would collect them together and they would be useful one day. I hope to take pictures now because I can tell you that a bathtub is full of more motors that I cannot use in my life. I adopted another rule, keeping only a part of the large amount of things I own, and putting the rest on my now rapidly growing metal scrap pile.

Finally, I set a time limit for all other projects that have not yet been promoted. If I have done nothing for ten years and it has no intrinsic or emotional value, it will be gone. I was surprised at the things I didn’t know I still had, which were carefully packed in boxes. For example, where on earth can I buy a bunch of Exabyte data backup tapes, why stick to a bunch of useless and outdated VESA local bus graphics cards?

Finally, when I transported the piles of waste, garbage, and recyclables to their respective destinations, I only had a small portion of plastic buckets left. Power cables and extensions, data, signal and network cables, electronic components and tools. One set of shelves occupies a lot, so I can put all the other non-electronic scraps of life in the 21st century on the remaining shelves. A few years later, I am now very vigilant and continue to work harder. If I have no urgent need for anything, it will not go with me. I can buy components online as needed, so I hardly need to keep any inventory. This is not to say that I am completely cured, I found that I now own more than one sewing machine, and somehow a bunch of ATX power supplies have become part of my life, but at least I can foresee the danger.

I'm sure you will have your own battle story about the trash tide. it seems

. Tell us your horror story in the comments and tell us how you handle it. If you want to know why I still have the Thinwire network, then I don't know. Maybe it has a life of its own, and it is vaguely visible when I oust its brothers.

I was very familiar when I moved...

Hey Hackaday writers, it’s really interesting to see a set of photos for your workbench, test equipment, and ongoing projects, and some comments (a seminar, "show and tell") . (If I did it before, then I will definitely miss it, and if there is a new group of writers, maybe it's worth refreshing?)

Happy +1

I am going through the same experience. Since we became the "empty nest elderly", we have moved and reduced the size of the house. My goal is to sort the bins before moving them. I did a certain amount of effort, but in the end it ended in an epic failure category. Now my studio is much smaller, but relatively small, because my old studio is the entire basement of my first home. Now, I have three workbenches on the picnic table, so don't feel sorry for me (the classic "first world problem"). The frantic repurchase of "parts or repair" items on eBay a few years ago didn't help.

My problem is that every part I own will become cherished forever. I prefer to abandon things (a solemn promise that they will love and cherish parts like me).

If I have discipline, the guy has this discipline! ! ! :

However, this person is more like what I did when I was working on the project. I teased the explosion and couldn't find anything.

It looks like my father's garage, basement and office.

He retired last year and they plan to sell the house. Obviously, he has no way to part ways with anyone. After leaving Florida for a month, I flew off-road and rented two 40-yard bins filled with edges. It killed me recycling a lot of old computers and radio equipment, but it needs to be completed. I put a huge new trash can in the box he collected, and drew out the building he had never been to from the vacuum tube he collected.

They went home and almost didn't notice.

After learning valuable lessons from it, I now go to a local ham exchange party once a year, and only scattered the accumulated things in the car. It made some teenagers there very happy.

You will never be able to convince me that these are not two photos of the same workshop, just facing different directions.

+1

Before the project:

After the project ends:

In the two John Square blogs, the only difference is two completely different osint jpeg interceptions...Thinking that my HaD friends will be interesting...I stand out from them, because one is my ultimate dream state and the other is me Of abundance and reality. Guess which...

For a second I thought you took a picture of my studio before the flood

Well, good idea eccentric electronics-also particularly interested in the psychology of the workplace

Re-inspiration; focus, discipline and commitment, while being open to diversified rebalancing projects.

Over the years, I have had many workplaces, mainly in my main residence, so I get stuck easily

I am very confused due to my interest in the many expansions and intersections of my main business

Be engaged in the second major, that is, from electronics/mechanics to food science/microbiology,

Don’t want to be full of fancy places and part of a proof-of-concept project (which will be used here soon),

So for the time being, because of time constraints, this is my main office for light electronic equipment, rarely

The main point of keeping up with the key points of my career, which means earning dollars (day trading)

A lot of reading, trying and verifying the preliminary electronic design, the monitor is:

Left: Display, my 5 most volatile ASX stocks are falling:-

Center: Dell Inspiron 1545 -15" 720p office/email and CAD programs, especially PCB, code analysis

Right: Acer Aspire 8920G-18-inch 1080p can double the deal from the bed

Because I dabble in stocks at other times and don’t want to get up, I trade and fall asleep

Although mainly used in documentaries, including DTB-T, technical papers and AI test code-scan script

The forum explaining the user name and nickname pattern re-states the facts and the truth – about Naf’s statement;-)

Yes, I know all the old technologies except Hantek USB-DSO (including 1631A/D and others), but it has been fixed

They all meet the needs, but a large laptop can be upgraded in a few days for more serious travel...

It is embarrassing compared to other pictures-thanks a lot sonofthunderboanerges

Fully understand what you mean (my chemistry laboratory is completely different), enough to speak my best defense

Probably because my workplace is messy (1 in 5), forcing me to focus more

Deal with it disciplinedly, so I will never feel an unusual sense of pressure transition

Between functions/screens!

PS:

A few years ago, I thought of a strange idea, my original first website address is different from my gateway email

The vector consists of only one ascii char, so far, I haven’t noticed anyone with the same scene

It doesn't seem to be much, providing simple business cards and other options-anyone?

Try to get very small domain names from companies like GO DADDY. Don't worry about the extension, it can be anything and it can still be used (ie .tv, .do, .co, etc.). Religiously pay the domain name fee every year on time, or release it to domain name thieves. Then use the email service of your web hosting provider. You can create email redirects of any length or subject around your small domain name. I was lucky and grabbed a 4-character domain name with my initials. I just need to figure out how to set the last two digits to an interesting or numbing subject. Just like MM99. com (not mine-just an example). Then, you can do email redirection, such as hacker@MM99.com or 1@mm99.com or mike@mm99.com, etc. Why choose 99? Suppose it’s your DOB, anniversary,

Decades ago, I bought the book "Messy Position" by "The Millionaire Janitor Don Aslett" (The Millionaire Janitor Don Aslett).

Through it, I realized that most of my miscellaneous things are emotional bags...

"One day this will be necessary"

"I will solve this problem"

"I am proud of this acquisition!"

"When the zombie apocalypse(TM) arrives, I will be ready!"

I am still struggling in the chaos, but now I know why!

B ^)

He has the same book!

After reading it, I didn't get a happy smile, and realized that I am not alone in this fixed circle of recyclable things!

I try to survive by getting into the habit of conducting a reality check every year... Has this trash not been touched or used in 3 years? Then put it on another squirrel. . . I have been suffering from the loss of test equipment for many years, and I would say that this is the hardest thing to let go. . . I always carry the extra... Finally, I saw a thread in my mind like a dream workbench, but once a year, it lasted 4 times a day. .Then perform multiple repairs again, which will produce good results...looks good, but it will also bring a bad feeling of being too clean; 0)p

It almost looks like a showroom. .You don’t know where to work, but you actually think it looks really good!

It's like a showroom where there are no children or animals, no dust, everything is shining!

Can I print on rLab and put it on the wall (every cabinet door and every drawer)?

:)

I just left STUFF for my children.

Give your child a galaxy benefit and deal with it as soon as possible.

Source: Things from my late mother who just spent the summer... and things her parents never dealt with. From about 1900 to the present, thousands of documents, souvenirs, trinkets, treasures and all other items are all mixed together and piled up in a nearly homing manner. 0/10-no longer execute.

I'm experiencing it now-three years after my grandmother passed away. Grandpa refused to give up things because "It might be important!" or "It's still good. I don't want them (insert selected famous hypernyms, usually words about Mexicans) to start trying and try to sell it!" I like best "I might need it someday" – seriously, how many 5-gallon barrels of old rusty tools and the accompanying fishing tackle box, coffee cans and baby food cans full of old rusty nails and screws (half of them) Do people over 90 years old need it?

The first week after her death was about great. My wife was there to help. When she forced him to get rid of things, he responded better to her (mostly grandma had to stop others from eating, and grandpa would *go*, no matter who took it) . Except for the storage shed and utility room in the garage, every room and closet of his three-bedroom house is full of garbage. When we left, there were only things in his closet. Each room had a bed, bedside table and dressing table. My brother and cousin helped clean things up in a year. Since then, it has been an uphill battle to get rid of everything in his farmhouse. We are talking about the "going on a path" scenario. I don’t like Christmas because last year he had 3 space heaters operating unattended, one of which lost his leg and was placed on a pair of old bricks on the wooden floor.

We took out stacks of old newspapers and checks, dating back to the 70s. The farmhouse was built in the 1940s. All newspapers and wooden buildings have turned the house into a huge tinder box, just waiting for wandering sparks.

At least he is trying to get rid of one thing he no longer needs or wants-his house in town!

A box of screws with stripped heads? Well, it is wasteful to make improvised explosive devices with beautiful new screws...

Unless you have the forging ability, there is no other use.

Put them in ReStores. Trust me, someone will want these scraps. Some people actually want the rusty appearance. That is my favorite store to get metal hardware, by the way!

I am experiencing it now. We just moved our parents to a nursing home. They lived in the same house for more than 50 years. Dad is a ham and likes to play with electronic products (like me). Everything we sent to the recyclers broke my heart. Even then, I took a few cars home with electronics. Fortunately, I have a rod magazine to store some of them.

My daughter came to town one weekend to help clean the house. I told her that one day she would make it again with my stuff. Her answer is that the quality of the places she chooses for me will depend on the amount of work she has to deal with. :-)

I hope I can downsize by then.

smart kid! I want to remember that.

"A few years ago, when I chose to perform this process, the method I chose was to apply a rigorous evaluation strategy to each project, and to adopt a set of standards applicable to it and determine its fate."

I find it very interesting. This article started with a short sparse network and then entered the "evaluation work".

If *anyone* doesn’t want a short piece of 50 ohm coaxial cable, BNC T-connector or 50 ohm terminator, dear god, I will take it all. These things are consumables-you can never stand it. Especially BNC, because you can bring cheap dual bananas to BNC female headers and use them as a single cable for meters, power supplies, etc.

I almost never throw away cables or adapters (if it's not RF, they will never be out of date, they will never be out of date)-just buy them an organization kit and throw them there. Then go offline for a few months and you will see it saying: "Damn, where did all the BNC T-shirts go?"

Is this a subtle call for help?

People clearly asked for free coaxial cables and BNC adapters. :)

I go to the wine cellar to check...think I have...see you in a month!

To be fair, you don't want to use Thinwire. In most cases, the nasty solid and crimp connectors will fail when you breathe. Part of the reason why the network can run such a PITA is because.

Okay, coaxial cable may be bullshit, but the tee and terminator are good. A few inches of coaxial cable is cheaper than 2 BNC T-shirts and 2 50 ohm terminator.

Wait a minute... Are you saying that I am not the only person with bad luck to get the Thinwire 50 ohm Novell network to work? I thought I was alone. The regular reprimands I get from my boss make me feel like I still am.

Haven't you filled the cables with ether regularly?

Every six months or 50 billion data packets, whichever comes first. Unless you use synthetic ether, you can get rid of 12mo 100B.

No, but I am working on an automatic filling device. I think our sales staff at the time didn't take any effort... leakage or deliberate waste of supply... you are the judge.

At least not token ring. The damn token keeps falling off...

I was lucky enough to install the first token ring network in the southern hemisphere. There are many symbolic "compatibility" issues. I don't think Token Ring is well known? For large networks, it is more of a niche market.

Didn't they even realize that the token must go in the opposite direction?

That's half of the problem-they are US tokens, and every once in a while they return to the wrong path. The other half of the problem is that American tokens are Empire tokens and will be stuck in metric cables. I still remember the terrible error message "Network Abend".

I still plan to (re)implement a small thin-line segment on the network. I have some old machines. None of the 10BaseT network cards of these machines are used, but there are thin-line network cards.

The GPIB-ENET box with BNC connector is cheaper than the UTP version. (Of course, the AUI version is the best, but they don’t appear often.)

So yes, there is a 10base-T hub with its UTP port facing the rest of the network, and a 9-inch thin net with tee and terminator to bring old GPIB glitches to the data of Labview VM Within the package.

Recently, I have another use for 10base-2: I must run some network equipment in an RF shielded enclosure for testing. We have a filtered USB passthrough, but not for Ethernet. The PC in the environment is locked too tightly to fill the USB NIC and just bridge the interface, so I have to make other suggestions. Then, I realized that there are many additional RF channels in this chamber! The e-waste recycler turned around and grabbed a pair of old 10base-T hubs with 10base-2 ports, one for indoor use and one for outdoor use. Later I used a pair of BNC-to-N adapter cables (and of course the necessary tee and terminator), and I started my business!

good idea! For other types of sealed enclosures that want to be connected to each other, this may come in handy.

I solved this problem by making my own HackerBox and sending the parts to another person in my state.

I like to recycle old things. Nothing is greater than nothing.

Some of these things are not even useful until you have a sufficient amount of things. In "Do I need a large-capacity pager motor? Amount"

Bottle caps, buttons on old desktop computers, gears on old clocks that once hung on school walls, chopsticks, ribbon cables, old floppy disks...Many art and handicraft items are found in the garbage that should be thrown away Started.

Once, I took the roller ball from the deodorant bottle, and later found that I was filled with a small cookie jar, so I did...um...yes.

Pager mototrs = "brush robot", kids can make it with batteries, old/cheap toothbrushes and pager motors.

I have too many coffee cans, and brainstorming is to arrange them between two 8-inch grids, so they make a self-supporting storage wall, buuuut, I can’t find any grids I like right now. Too bad, the staples are off, the size is wrong, the wood in the shop has cracked into hell, etc. The small works that I must base on seem to be unique in the universe.

Open them with tin scissors and roll them into thin sheets, then fold a bunch of small decorative snuff boxes or tea candle holders out of the metal and sell them.

At this time, I put them all in the recycling bin. Empty coffee cans are not a rare commodity, I seem to be able to produce a lot.

Gerry Kennedy

I see that as the sales of coffee in aluminum foil bags or plastic "cans" increase, the number of coffee cans will decrease.

…Or small SSC (Single Serving Coffee) pods!

"Dax wrote:

Once, I took the ball from the roll-on deodorant bottle"

Yes, I did the same, I think they can be used as table football (for table football).

But I don’t have a table, nor does the boss’s lounge!

To be precise, I still stick to the pink South African desert crab hair from the 1970s. I will find out soon.

The huge lazy Susan... That's the number of deodorizing balls I have to deal with.

If I were hunted down, I thought about bringing a big bag and throwing it behind me.

Ren, you hit your head. No wonder the "crazy" nickname given to me by my family never seemed to fit-now I can be sure that one day, my decades-long dedication will not be wasted! genius! ;)

Can you warn me before throwing everything away? That day, a nice pickup truck will be waiting at your door... :-) Also, one of my vesa local bus graphics cards (a year ago) was dead, and the other one was flaky Yes, so...

Yes, VLB graphics cards will be sold exclusively on eBay soon. Is it definitely a collectible for those who still own the old 386? VLB system.

Wow! In my methodical handling of recycling or garbage, this sounds like my dilemma. The photos of the chips are really shocking.

The idea of ​​a cookie jar left a deep impression on me!

Now, my chip will have EMP protection!

One day, I realized that parts that are not sorted (and therefore cannot be found, and may be forgotten) are actually worse than no parts at all. If you can't find it when you need it, or forget it at all, then it will never be actually used and therefore will never be useful. It is worse than not having it, because it takes up space.

I added an assessment category: Would I like to organize/categorize?

Surprisingly, this is an effective and intuitive standard that I hardly bother about. These are too good to be thrown away? of course. Am I willing to classify and organize them? No? To the trash can

Correct. A friend who does industrial electronics repair also has a similar problem.

Gave me a big bag of resistors. One bag of hundreds of resistors. Manor of all value. All brand new.

Obviously it is too good to be thrown away, but for him, spending time searching for a few cents is not a good business sense.

On the other hand, I have spare time. I am willing to classify them to a certain extent.

I bought a 16 drawer parts organizer, marked the first 10 drawers with a multiplier tape, and quickly classified the resistors. Now, each drawer has 10 to 100 random resistors, but all of the same size-I can quickly browse dozens of resistors to see if I have or can piece together the correct value.

4 other drawers? Well, handbags do have some precious value, so these have their own drawers.

"It's worse than not having it, because it takes up space."

According to my experience, this is even worse, because I spent 45 minutes searching around for parts that I only knew I had, and then I finally bought it because I couldn't find it.

I am ashamed. It's all so.

I agree with Jenny! If you haven't touched it or needed it for a year, then it will go to the trash can. Buy yourself some contractor garbage bags (U.S. garbage bag lining), and apply a scorched earth policy to the garbage. Then drag them to the local thrift store (for example, Goodwill, Savers, etc.), or take them to the local dump or recycling station. Some will pay for metal parts.

The idea is to throw away the garbage. You need to put it on hold. Either type, so you can stop looking down and try to avoid bending over to sort. The boxes on the shelf are good, but you need a label maker and you need to sort them roughly. Transparent or translucent containers are better. To avoid cable entanglement (they will naturally drive you crazy), you can hang them on the side of the shelf, or take some elastic bands (rubber bands), tie them into small rolls, and put them in boxes classified by type in.

Do not put items in briefcases, ammunition boxes, pelican boxes, etc., unless there is a label. You will be surprised how fast it is, and you will be surprised if you have to open it to check every case! Zippers and latches can be annoying. Do not put them in the kitchen or living area. This is a good way to divorce. Find somewhere you can stretch. Just like in the attic, garage, shed, back porch, or even the old lo boxcar parked near the house, you can connect it through the house’s power, heat and cooling devices. Be sure to block the windows to prevent intruders from entering. You need some shelves and workbenches. The chair has been built into the minivan. Connect video intercoms so that your family knows that you have not abandoned them. Also set up telephone extensions and Ethernet lines for HaD messages.

Now, all you need to do is ask someone to bring you meals. This may be someone you have equipped with a big screen TV connected to NetFlix or Hulu. When you need a nap, don’t forget the sleeping bag and pillow. Your wife will keep knocking on the door, "Did the honey come back into the house?" However, when you sit in the soil, there are a lot of garbage piled around, building things like a crazy scientist!

(Laughs out loud)

"If you haven't touched it for a year or don't need it, then it will go to the trash can."

grr. Okay, try again.

This philosophy applies to parts, paper and many other transient objects. I have some fossils about 60 million years ago. These requirements have slightly different strategies.

If it is neither useful nor decorative, then throw it away

This is a short-term approach. It must be extended to at least ten years. Example: My first SMD audio oscillator was made 20 years ago with a beautiful, not rectangular self-etching PCB on a phenolic PCB material. I have not touched it since moving to my apartment in 1998. But a few months ago, I had to repair the solar regulator and I needed SO8 40106. Cheap chips, of course-cost less than 1/10 of the shipping cost of ordering new chips. :-)

I have some rubbish, but I am not smart enough to know what to do.

There used to be articles such as "CNC made from trash", but when all the motors in the trash can are of different sizes and you don't have two belts or rods that match, how do you make something out of it?

Therefore, I left the rubbish in place and purchased standard size parts. Once I answer this question, it will be easier to solve the problem.

You take a piece of aluminum from another trash can and make an adapter. Duh.

If you can't make things, there is no savings. You will never do anything-but if you can make things, everything else is just raw materials.

For example, if you have thousands of old hard drives, you can tear off the magnets and make an axial magnetic field generator for water wheels.

Ah, Dax mentioned a motto in the topic and related reminders that has worked for me for decades:

1. Parts, any unnailed parts can be used to build the robot immediately

& Should be used for human education, if not for pure pleasure of expression

2. If the parts are nailed in the proper position, it is completely suitable for use

A removal tool, such as a claw hammer, can remove the fixture firmly but professionally.

3. Go to 1

This also made me think of a best inference applicable to the code in the genetic algorithm variant

Explored by those who are proficient; permutations and abnormal data structure primitives represent

Practical devices such as resistors and capacitors to write more subtle code snippets

Provide inferences about the expressed personality intentions, such as in forum comments elsewhere;-)

Man, you need to check spelling in your browser.

Myth thinks he needs more lithium than a spell checker.

@Dax:

You mean to use lithium in the form of batteries to power his robot?

Well, this got me into the "axis magnetic field generator" situation?

Of course, you mean a classic alternator (for example, a Fisher/Paykal motor with permanent magnets reconnected)

Improve efficiency as much as possible under the highest safe voltage, then

It is not an axial magnetic field, but a circular rotating alternating magnetic field (ie a permanent magnet rotor)

The stator coils are arranged to absorb as much magnetic flux changes as possible, and then appropriately

Convert multi-phase rectification into 2-wire low-ripple feed, which is closest to the final distance

Application-You can also use the appropriate SMPS for the intended application...

It only represents a generator with magnets fixed on a disc, with magnetic poles pointing in the direction of the axle.

The magnets of the hard disk drive are already magnetized with alternating north and south poles on the flat sides, so it is simple to glue them to the rotor.

When searching for "axial field" or "axial flux" generators, you will find the following:

They are suitable for any low-speed application because the magnet is fixed on the outer edge of the rotor disk and has a high speed relative to the stator and windings, which means it can generate useful voltage from things that rotate at low speeds. RPM, such as a waterwheel.

I think a key reality to accept is that you will throw out what you need in the (near) future. But this must be _ok_. Let it go. Deal with it when it/it comes.

It just happened to me. Motivated to help others lose weight, consider helping reduce the size of my parents and experience the pressure of potential depression episodes (my ATM feels better), I started to clear out the trash that I haven't encountered in years. I can actually see my workbench now. Archeology tells the history of electronics/project history. It feels better to have the upper hand in my work space.

Less than a month later, I went to the store to buy some things that hadn't been moved for many years, and these things had been sitting on my bench. I almost lost it-until I remembered that before it was cleared, I consciously decided that if I needed something to throw away, I could buy new parts.

So I am still satisfied with it. And there may be another round of cleanup.

well done. And a good way.

A broad person said: "You don't own things, things own you".

Now, all I have to do is to live up to my motto:-(

Scared to death those broad people and their sayings!

Ehud, this is my biggest trouble. Many times, I need some gears or components that have just been released. That drives me crazy again and again. I am now trying to follow your leadership and eliminate some confusion. Thanks for your input.

That's the problem. You can have something for more than ten years. However, if you decide to discard it, you will most likely need it in the next few weeks.

After World War II, my father dabbled in electronics and bought and sold surplus parts on Canal St. At one point, he monopolized the market for banana plugs and sold them to the dealers he bought from there. Use a baby scale to weigh on the kitchen table. As we moved around the block, he was still building a 7-transistor radio. That was 1958.

My father passed away 58 years later, but I have a 20-foot container filled with old military surplus electronic equipment and other good things. Except for most damage, even if there is no damage. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Somewhere there should be a 1940s aspirin tin label labeled "Dull phonograph needle". When we wandered through "things", my sister was always looking for it. Moved from Brooklyn to Arkansas. The mixture is supplied by hardware stores of various fasteners.

It is very tempting to shovel them all into the trash can, but we come from a puritan family for 400 years. Therefore, despite the pain, some things should not be discarded. What was found included a British Telegraph receipt, which was a message sent on November 16, 1861, sent to Message 16 at a cost of 16:1. It must have been sent by Caleb Huse, who bought weapons for the Confederate States of America in England at the time. We have always wondered why he kept it. I always thought it was the first weapon purchase notice sent to Jefferson Davis. However, I just noticed the repetition and arrangement of "16", so its importance may be less than I thought.

I am handling about three 40-foot-long trailers loaded by Dad. (Not counting my personal stuff, this is just three 28-foot trailer loads; -) But this is a complete workshop with lathes, milling machines, etc. and a technical database of 5000 volumes. But there are also many saved bits.

Therefore, we understand your oscilloscope test cable. I also have a pile of fine line garbage. In the past, I left a map of the research laboratory network on the wall so that I could help the administrator solve the problem quickly. When they rewired the twisted pair, we were very excited.

When dealing with my own repository, I concluded that a unique trash can shelf with the same number and a computer database in the trash can are the only viable solution.​​​​ Search quickly and you will know if you own it and where it is. It is essential for hackerspace.

The moral of the story is to allocate a certain amount of space. Once filled, save them only when you are ready to discard something to make room. I use a cabinet to throw away the container. It ensures a ready supply, but avoids loss of control.

OT: Where in Arkansas? I'm at Conway and we need to meet.

Heber Hot Springs 501-365-3121

Brave man.

So will ads on Craig's list be safer? I really want to find someone who wants these things.

Is there a hacking space where shop equipment can be used?

Does anyone within 75 miles want to build a hacker space?

The Milwaukee Makerspace has very few equipment, most of which are "borrowed" people and

the company.

Things to consider...

I think there is a good market for millions of remaining electronic products, especially if they look cool or repairable. I kind of like old military radios.

In any case, I totally feel how difficult it is to throw it away. You only know that there is some value, so you want to see the value that is recognized. You would rather give someone something than just make suggestions. Worse, you don’t want to see others profit from something you simply throw away.

These all show that these things are under control.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Ken's another Mill collector! Next year, someone somewhere is going to install a T-39* box for BC-745 because it is located in the middle of Dad’s trash and I would love to own it. I refused to pay hundreds of dollars to complete the setup of the device because I bought this radio for 10 dollars in 1986. A few years later, when Fair advertised in their catalog, the antenna was repaired. And found the manual from Yascavage while Yascavage was still on sale. Can I put them together, or can all of them be put in the trash can in a few years? These are worse than collecting action sets, and I have never been as complete as I proudly showed them at the MRCA festival on the coast. If you have a BC-348, then there are missing DM-28, PL-103, etc., no, the entire shock mount, manual, "Then Packrat, how many planes do you want to collect!?!?"

Hope to receive a telegram receipt... ?

Recycle; don't throw it away. And don't forget that in the United States, Goodwill will use a variety of electronic products, including CRT screens.

Well, since the Chinese have stopped buying scrap metal, scrap metal is now almost worthless.

Isn't that true? The local mix dropped by about 30 tons.

In Indiana, Goodwill will only use TVs less than 2 inches thick! Will they choose those folded CR tubes?

Thrift stores in Missouri (regardless of the St. Louis area) will not accept CRT. Even in the recycling yard, their recycling cost is $20.

Pay attention to the gold in that trash can. Sometimes, the value of old chips is beyond your imagination.

The 6650s ceramic, launched in 1976, sells for $1,299 or more on eBay

Yes, other good ones might be SID, 4004 etc.

damn you! I'm just going to convince the boss that I'm sick and need to go home, so I can start throwing things... I think about it now I remember that I might have put some 6502 somewhere, so it's better not to throw anything away!

Similarly, the golden fried Pent pro in the literal sense is too ugly for collectors, but there is still about the Federal Reserve in it.

A few years ago, I bought a bunch of old gold ICs (a large box of ICs is still in their tracks and the price is $20). The unit price of an item from China is about $50. I put them on eBay for $25 each and only got a few insulting low-price offers. One of them bid 50 cents each for 5 of them, and stated in the comment "You will never sell them because it is not real gold!" I ended up selling a lot of 12 cars for $250 in cash. Plus a bunch of Nixie tube drivers encountered at the exchange meeting (this is the first time I have been). The lady said that she has many buyers looking for old parts to repair old equipment, especially in Eastern Europe. I got her phone number and later sold her many ARCNET transceiver modules and took my family on vacation.

In any case, I am pretty sure that the reason why a particular processor sells so high is its rarity (not used in the original packaging) rather than its scrap value.

How do you throw everything away? ! ? ! What kind of monster are you! !!? !!? ! ? ,

Over the years, I have experienced it several times-when you hoard the treasure trove, the dynamics are bad. When I was a kid, I prepared a quick solution, cheap heat gun and bucket. In the first few years, the price of LCD monitors has been cheap enough that you can pick up six CRTs per junk day, which is a quick way to reduce the loading of trucks full of shoebox parts. However, I have never digested trinitroxides-they are just freaks and cannot be sacrificed.

However, the tower is more sturdy, and I bluntly used "beige boxes" as table legs and shelves-at any given time, 2-3 6-foot tall 486 and socket-7 motherboard stacks can also be used. The cards I sold to dealers at the flea market, and ram and cpus became my own cards.

. . . After being forced to realize that I had too many things, fast-tracking to college-more than 90% of things were gradually thrown away or sold (rarely), I slowed down the speed of picking up random things. However, this is a question. Why should I make sure that a certain group of people insist on using outdated and useless things? Anyone remember 2009-2010, when 386, 486 and 6×86 modules were changed from rubbish to gold in the resale market? I clearly remember that I sold my last three cyrix 133/166 cpus on eBay for about $60 each, and then kicked myself on the ass of another 100 or so, and threw it away a few years ago. 20 pounds of rams. . .

After three steps, I made a simple rule-if it is bigger than a shoe box, and I don't need the shoes/components in a particular project now, then it won't appear in the first place. The only exceptions are books and lifetime items, but even those must be rare/esoteric.

I don't worry about kicking myself without insisting on hundreds of other things. If you list all the products, you will flood the market, and the prices of all these products will drop, and it is not even worth buying postage.

"Rare/Esoteric"

This is how I almost bought 3 optical sights for the T-55 tank at auction.

Fortunately, I purchased the first shipment before then.

When I was in 5th or 6th grade, my best friend’s father was an electronic technician and gave me boxes of his old electronic products. The bits and pieces I pulled out of those boxes fascinated me, which eventually made me part of EE. Now, more than 30 years later, I also have a lot of electronic "waste", and I would be happy to give it to someone to inspire in the same way.

Donate it to local elementary schools, boys and girls clubs/after-school care facilities or scout troops.

If your workbench is clean, some people think you have nothing to do. If your company is downsizing, or they want to put some ill-defined items on your desk, this may be a work problem. At the same time, singles colleagues with a "blood chaos" table can get it for free :) Like everything in life, balance needs to be maintained.

However, when you really need space to perform operations quickly, rubbish on the bench becomes an obstacle!

When I was a kid, I would spend a few hours sorting out Dad’s messy bolts and Bob’s Dad’s big coffee can. I will use these parts to make robots and spaceships (hypothetical), then take them apart and put them back in the coffee can. I miss them very much.

My daughter is like this

Except after she never put them back!

There is a place specially created for this! It is called FREEStore on OpenBuilds, which is a great way to provide unneeded parts to another builder/school/manufacturer who really needs it.

It enables other hoarders to increase their hoarding.

But it's none of my business...

I like to keep the smaller things (old ICs), because you might use them even after ten years. I recently used the 7404 that I bought nearly 30 years ago. Collecting old parts facilitates the creative process of hackers and leads people to come up with new ways to use components.

Most of my ICs are listed in the spreadsheet.

I still use 7400 ICs (organized in tackle boxes, many purchased 20 years ago), and can make various devices when the Raspberry Pi or Arduino is overused.

Fortunately, as far as I know, there is no specific law criminalizing ard Juqi, where you can go to jail like murder or driving under the influence.

Good ho!

When the building block becomes a nuisance or danger, it becomes illegal. If the house and property are too out of control, they may be condemned.

I can shake the call sign of the long rows of disturbance accumulators (all SK now), and I am now the curator of these accumulators.

Yes, this piece is really popular...

After joining the Manufacturers Space (Omaha Manufacturers Group), I was introduced to the concept of "clearance day" when all the debris in the store was garbage, recycled or sorted and stored properly. I have started to use the same subjects in the work space. I have stopped using old PCs and instead use virtual machines. If I were to prepare a bunch of parts for a future project, II put them in the container so they would not fall apart. I have organized my tools so that they are always available. If I’m not sure if my item is valuable, I will write an email on OMG’s list and ask them "trash or treasure?" Finally, I think three times, and then bring back some that I don’t plan to convert in the project s things. It took me a long time to get it neat and tidy and I don't want to go back.

If it is not easy to replace, then I will at least try to give it up, maybe throw it on Flea Bay with a sufficient minimum bid to ensure that the transportation is paid, Craigslist, or just put it on the table to reach the maximum interest. A free sign.

Don't get me wrong, it won't all disappear. But...the people there have all kinds of old-fashioned things. The part you just throw away may be exactly what someone desperately wants to complete their project.

Hello, my name is Ken and I am a Catholic.

(Pause, everyone is on the "Hi, Ken" drone, I thank you)

At least I am a high-functioning fanatic. It is relatively independent, I still have a job, and my wife has not left me. This is important because I have a friend...sad in terms of garbage accumulation... (for example, 3 failed office photocopiers. Why?), and his wife finally left him. No joke. I am trying to help him reduce his workload and use dump runs to ease some of my nonsense.

(But junkaholics – confession! When you need parts or some spare parts to fix something else, and you do own it and find it, doesn’t it feel spectacular? Hoarder heroin. I just like being able to solve a project without having to go out and get parts .)

What helped me was to see that it could get worse. But it also depends on my age, guess how long I will spend studying these things, and then see if I have enough time to use all these things.

In any case, I ship at Banggood almost every week, which forces me to throw away old things just to make room.

Yes, going to a biracial or other place and seeing other people trying to get rid of their "trash" made me realize that one day I will be in the same predicament, which gave me the "don't take home!" scene.

I did better. Last time I put all the medicines in one bag and put them at home.

Well, Jenny, I will get rid of some garbage. :/

Has anyone found that this is a matter of time just like other problems? In the past, I regarded it as "my" trash, after which it has undergone several movements, and then mixed with "household" trash, and the overall turbulence was. In addition, completing home repairs and emergency situations in blind emergency rescues is not helpful. Tools and supplies are everywhere. At the end of the "project", I was too exhausted to store things properly (if there is a suitable place) They are a bit old-fashioned. Now, I have some enthusiastic family members who help organize my basement. Some of them are dangerous, some are useless, and some want to clear the space so that I can store their dilapidated furniture.

Dangerous means that they have a bloody smell that needs to be cleaned, and their eyes are shining crazy. As far as they are concerned, the only way is to completely remove everything, and then use SOS to wash away the rest of the pad until You pass paint and then paint again. The second type is useless. It is... they are willing to help, but they don't know anything about classification ideas. You can say: "I want all the books in these boxes, all the spare kitchen supplies in these boxes..." Five minutes later, a kettle was placed in a box half full of books... "There is a room over there "...But I tried to separate things! ! ! …Some of these types helped me through, and I asked them to write down the contents on the box…. I have a lot of boxes of mixed goods labeled "things" and "yes". They contain 2 pieces of VHS tape, some cleaning supplies, a jersey, and the lid of a pan has been missing for many years. The couple decorated a remote control... I caught these people and tried to add more boxes. They helped clean the room upstairs. Now there is another box in it with furniture polish, a piece of cloth, some old mail, a few books. Books, a bunch of flyers... aaaaaargh, flyers and old mail are recycling furniture polish and cleaning cloth in the cupboard! ! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . One. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I even threw some of my things on the floor because someone needed a box... to fill up all kinds of things that should be placed elsewhere.

Then there is the third type, they only want the room you want to occupy. They want to renovate, downsize, or anything else. This is an insult to them because your own items are taking up space in your own house, and they might have thrown trash from the house. Yes, they just want to throw garbage. Then some of them, you clean up the space for yourself, go out in the afternoon, there are some things sitting there, their old crib is too good to be thrown away because someone might need it...yes, but not me. The rest of my family did this. One day, I neatly organized my workbench throughout the morning to work on the large server tower unit... I left for 20 minutes, staggered my back from the bulky unit, and washed my workbench. Do laundry... So I also have this kind of psychological barrier: "Moving space is meaningless because it will be filled up."

Some of them, they don’t believe that I don’t need help, so if it is possible that they are nearby, I actually have time to make any classifications. I can't... it makes no sense.... They want to help...mainly because they are usually the source of my lack of time. The car went to three shops, but it still couldn’t run. Only I can fix it... and I curse that every time this happens, it’s irritating Creepy time, use "Sounds like a bad problem, why not stop it here, I will try to solve it next month"... "No, no, look at it now." ... So I see A moment... See the dirty ground, clean it up... It's better... Fuck, now I'm a miracle worker again...

+ 1K!

Brother, you live my life! However, sometimes the first and third examples are the same person. We really have a family member who said: "Let's redo the things downstairs, get rid of the things that I think are of no value, and then I will use your location as storage/second house." They think: clean up our future The completed underground area (including cloth diapers (very expensive, but worth it), antique heirlooms can be traced back to my wife’s 6 generations, baby clothes (my wife was pregnant at the time and was told “just got something like garage sales!” ”), the computer I used for the folding@home project and the radio that is being restored, not to mention the cheap test equipment and expensive repair equipment I bought}, get rid of the bed in the room and use their fitness equipment (never used ) Replace it, replace my 3-month-old plasma TV with its CRT unit (because recyclers charge $20 to take it, and HD is "overrated"), and replace the entire sink because the tap is dripping ( Warranty replacement cartridges). These are the little things they want to accomplish while insisting that we give them a key so they can come in at any time.

Relatives from hell.

I think. complete.

I got rid of one of them, and the other was "Oh, your spare room is empty!" ......Ha, don't we people know the definition of "spare" well?

I must have entered the chaotic philosophy and psychology.

I have found:

– Consumer culture is the cause of confusion. I now have the ability to buy new things, which gives me the ability to take things home, and faster than I can take care of. If I never buy anything, or the purchase rate is much slower, then "chaos" will not be a problem. When buying, I will try to be considerate and considerate. I try to buy second-hand or repair something I already own. Whenever I spend money on goods, it's a mess.

– I keep telling myself that chaos and accumulation are good because they are natural (that is, chaos itself is a natural by-product of my interaction with my own things). I suspect this is a bit incorrect. Consumer culture was born in the first agricultural society and specialized society. It did not evolve with us as a species. This is not a natural process. Rather, it is a technical meme. Our instincts serve our hunting and gathering ancestors, but they are not very scalable and are almost useless without modification.

– I personally don’t like pre-made workspaces. I prefer to set up a prototype workspace that can be reconfigured. Only when I found myself setting the same configuration over and over again did I start looking for ways to make the settings permanent.

– The simplest excuse for messing up is convenience. It is easier to put something in a standing place than to put it away. Therefore, organizational optimization for the purpose of tidying up should focus entirely on making things easier to tidy up. Don’t worry about discovering the problem and labeling everything. Focus on making it easier to put away.

-There is a lot of loose paper everywhere. Get rid of it. If you must keep it, put it in a binder.

-Clean things. Generally, the longer the dirt is left, the more difficult it is to clean it. If you are willing to accept it, immediate cleaning almost always takes half the time.

-My possessions triggered my ADHD. I am distracted. One of my most distracting things is my stuff. Staying tidy, organized and working can save time and make me feel worried and distracted. Keeping this in mind will inform me of some purchases.

"-Consumer culture is the cause of confusion. I now have the ability to buy new things, which gives me the ability to take things home, and faster than I can take care of. If I never buy anything, or The purchase speed is much slower, so "chaos" will not be a problem. When buying, I will try to be considerate and considerate. I try to buy second-hand or repair things I already own. Whenever I spend money on goods, I will It's a mess."

Haha, this is what got me started. I rarely buy new things, install two broken things, make a whole, and then leave a little...

…Other people’s consumer culture confuses me. I really like the treasures on the roadside. Therefore, I am not spending money (I said to myself), nor am I thinking about spending time and storage space.

*Sigh* + 1, Ken. Why should I buy new things when I can piece together several things from the previous generation of products and have more fun?

This is why I have 3 Homelite herbicides.

They can be repaired for less than $10.

I found a very nice old Stihl chainsaw in their "damaged" trash can, removed the bar, and pulled the starter/gas tank in the local Goodwill for $10. I took it home and thought it would be great to rebuild it. Then, I found that the price of the rod was $50, plus the price of the used fuel tank/starter assembly was $60, and the price of the muffler/chain cover assembly was more than $40. After removing all the grease, I found that the handle was cracked in a very bad place. When I can spend a little money on a brand new old machine with a warranty, or spend less money on a second-hand professional machine, it will eventually cost me $200 to get it into operation.

This article resonated with me, and I think I could have written it myself. The sense of guilt was so strong that I saw the usefulness of so many things, so that I persisted endlessly and found that I had no working space. I explain to myself because I have two children, but in fact their only space workshop is a kid’s bike (and that’s just one of them). In fact, I own a large BNC T-connector and terminator block (is it an interconnection point in modern art?), in addition to reminding me of my first computer network that does not involve null modem cables, I There is no other reason to keep it. I have tried several times to narrow the collection, but I never seem to be brutal enough to do this. I don't know how many amazing hackers attributed to the chaotic work space that inspired people's indifference. On the nose as usual!

PS: We should all publish chaotic pictures so that we can inspire each other to be realistic, and the portable inkjet printers in the mid-90s are by no means equal to 3D printers, and you know...

(Secret shame)

Or look at other people's hiding places and hit them with "Are you going to throw that thing?"

This is not a bad idea! One's trash can

Even ordinary desktop inkjet printers are rarely equipped with NEMA stepper motors. In order to obtain motors suitable for 3D printers and desktop CNCs, you need to find hardware from the 1980s and early 1990s. For example, I found NEMA 17 and NEMA 23 in an electronic typewriter. Large office printers will also have them. If you want to get a NEMA 17/23 stepper, the old 132-column dot matrix printer is your best hope. Don't forget that most six-wire steppers can be used as bipolar steppers, so don't throw them away!

The printer/scanner usually has a stepper in it, but you need 5 steppers to get the 5 or so steppers required by the 3D printer/CNC. You can buy the exact stepper for only $10, so why bother with an old printer?

Of course, I can still collect steppers, but I have not found a use for a single device because I can buy new steppers cheaply.

I finally took off my clothes, there are some useful things in it, but I like metal cages, these things are definitely worth holding on :-)

Oh, forget the other one:

-I feel strange about it, but I still do it. I am a little superstitious about cleaning. Whenever I drop something, I treat it as if the universe is punishing me, because it makes the chaos too big. Whenever I find that the universe is angry for a mess (indicating that I lose something and spend a lot of time searching for it in the house), I stop searching and start cleaning. Inevitably, the universe was calmed down, and after several hours of cleaning, I found what I wanted.

When I am full of energy, this is how I usually do it!

"There is a theory that if anyone finds exactly what the universe is and why it is here, it will immediately disappear and be replaced by something stranger and more inexplicable. There is another theory that this has already happened. "-Douglas Adams (Douglas Adams)

I suspect the universe is trying to punish you.

1. Naturally hate vacuum

2. The universe will end in confusion

So, in fact, the universe may be pressing this chaos on you!

It has animation effects, but it works!

My personal rule is that, except for shelves and trash cans, no "storage" space (such as storage units, carports, etc.) is purchased. This is very useful for me and helps eject many large sucking space items (including when I live) with very little rent). Now that I have my own residence and built a 24×36 store, I started to pick things under the roof and put them in the trash can marked with shelves, where I could find it.

So far, everything is going well. Ran into one or two boxes of random electronic circuit boards/wires/etc. And have merged them into one. If it is not suitable, it will [output]. It’s a pleasure to discover the trash cans saved for the "Dream Store"... the collection of more than ten years can only be deployed in the building.

I have given up a lot of things (usually things at work), and since I grew up, I have rarely studied electronics, which is difficult. My most recent splurge was saving a lot of old POTS phones for a friend’s art project, and I’ve been doing this all year round.

My biggest problem is car spare parts... But when the car is gone, it can easily be separated from everything in the car. Similar to electronic equipment, but actually dirty and usually heavy.

The best way is to help friends fix important things by going into a random trash can (for them) and pulling out the parts they need to save the bacon.

I have a rule about small tips, which is "nanny and hanger". If you can hang it on the wall, you can buy it. If it's a nanny, I can't buy it. If it is a temporary worker who can be converted into a hanger, I can buy it. As for the project parts, I do not keep electronic products because I work for an electronic product distributor and get all products at a price 10% higher than the cost. :^) If there is electronic "junk" at work, I will mail it to Makerspace after confirming that they want it.

I am a lady (I take your name as the basis) working in an electronics distributor? How are you'?

Guilty as mentioned before. The first item in my inventory spreadsheet is the ubiquitous 1N914. My inventory is less than 30,000. Maybe it will be useful someday...I hope.

That's only in electronics. There is also an airplane/auto parts list for RC models...and then car parts...motorcycle parts... Together with the remaining 3 generations of tools, I can distribute my tools in large numbers. Then there are antique kitchen equipment...all manually operated...

If you have hoarding... just do it in style!

You can connect at least three and a half KB ROM to 7kB, if you think half will be zero.

I also have some questions about the passion for spinning. Although I think the model error will not be bitten again, it has been ten years and the price seems to be high, so it should be honored.

OMG! no. A small part of the rule that worked for me is: "If I can’t organize it well and do some sort of inventory, then it will be eliminated." For larger items (such as my fully functional Epson HX-20 or Apple [e] It’s a bit difficult to decide. Apple is gone.

I really can't say that these are collections in "Rotating Passion". I am not collecting things from temporary enthusiasm, but from long-term serious interests. Temporary enthusiasm creates temporary collections... and trash leaves with enthusiasm.

Keeping things relatively organized is the prerequisite for "keeping things".

Just this week, a colleague reminded me that he needs a "BNC separator". I found my collection :-)

Just last week, I was helping my father organize his garage and indoor lockers in preparation for shrinking/moving. He mainly hoards timers and steel, as well as some bicycles and car parts, but does have some electronic devices: a few beautiful ammeters, some other car accessories, and old bakelite light switches in good condition-it's so good to switch! Oh, there are more wrenches, you can't poke it.

Confession: I have a cable, as shown in Figure 1. The attic is full of...resources!

I limit my garbage collection to 3 small boxes and one shelf in the shed. This is the limit I am willing to manage.

For me, this is a cross-country sport. Although it has spent a lot of money, I still found an electronic recycling station to recycle old Palm (pilot) development parts, various cables and things, and some old CRT monitors...

My current problem is that there is almost a maker space in my backyard, but they still don't have 24/7 access. So I am unwilling to resolve the deadlock.

I have gotten used to it and have made great progress in reclaiming space. At this point, my main task is to dispose of garbage, but I don't want

Sn3.0Ag0.5Cu solder paste is a common alloy for lead-free solder paste in the industry. However, the price of silver has been rising in the past few years. This has promoted the demand for alternative low/non-silver alloy materials and has led to the development of many alternative alloys. Today, there are many low/non-silver alloy solder pastes available on the market. Publication on replacing lead-free alloys [1-3]. However, most research has focused on alternative alloys for BGA solder balls and their reliability. Publications on the thermal reliability of low/silver-free alloy solder pastes are very limited. In our previous publication [4], the alternative low/non-silver alloy solder paste performed well in the process evaluation. As shown in Figure 1 and Figure 2, many alternative solder pastes have good printability and wettability.

Printability of low/no silver alloy solder paste. Solder paste J is SAC305 solder paste. The other material is low-silver alloy solder paste. The results show that many alternative alloy materials have printing performance comparable to SAC305.

Wetting test results of various lead-free alloy solder pastes. Shows the wetting test images of SAC305, SAC0307 and SnCuNi alloy solder pastes. These three solder pastes have similar spread diameters on average.

From a process point of view, it is feasible to use alternative alloy solder pastes. However, information about its reliability is lacking. In this article, we will discuss the structure, reliability and failure analysis of lead-free solder joints reflowed using alternative low-silver solder pastes.

As shown in Table 1, six different lead-free solder pastes were studied. Type 3 does not use clean solder paste. The material A SAC305 was used as a control. Material B, SAC0307, ​​is an alternative low-silver solder paste without adding other alloys. Material C, SAC0307, ​​contains some microalloying additives, which may affect the coarsening of tin grains. There is no Ag in the composition of material D (SnCuBiCo) and material E (SnCuNi). In addition, a near-eutectic SnBi alloy (material F) with a small amount of Ag added has also been studied. The liquidus temperature of this alloy is about 138°C, which is much lower than other tested lead-free alloys. The melting temperature of Sn3.0Ag0.5Cu alloy is about 217ºC. The melting point of another low-silver superalloy is about 227-228ºC. It is known that low-temperature Sn-58Bi eutectic is fragile. In order to refine the microstructure of the Sn/Bi eutectic and promote creep deformation through brittle fracture upper grain boundary sliding, a small amount of Ag is required to be added [5]. The alloy composition of the solder paste material is listed in Table 1.

Solder paste material and its alloy composition.

The company's multi-function test vehicle was used in the study (Figure 3). The size of the circuit board is 225mm x 150mm x 1.67mm. The surface finish of the board is OSP. The test vehicle has many different SMD component types, such as BGA (0.8mm and 1.0mm pitch), CSP (0.5mm, 0.4mm, 0.3mm), QFN component (0.5mm and 0.4mm pitch), leaded component (SOIC) , QFN100, QFN208, etc.), chip components (0201,0402, 0603, 0805), through-hole components, etc...In addition, the test vehicle has different areas, which are designed for printability testing, slump testing, and lubrication Wetness test, solder ball test, pin testability, etc.

The company's multifunctional test vehicle, revised version 1.0.

As shown in Table 3, components of different types and sizes were assembled for reliability testing. The daisy chain components are monitored during the thermal cycling test.

Components in reliability testing.

All samples using solder paste A to E were reflowed with a typical lead-free curve, with a peak temperature of about 245°C (Figure 4). The SnBiAg paste (material F) was reflowed using a low-temperature reflow profile (peak temperature is about 170°C) (Figure 5). The reflux is carried out in an atmospheric environment.

Solder paste material and its alloy composition.

The company's multifunctional test vehicle, revised version 1.0.

High temperature lead-free reflow curve.

Low temperature lead-free reflow profile.

The thermal cycling test is carried out in an air-to-air thermal cycling chamber, with a temperature ranging from 0 to 100°C, staying at each peak temperature for 10 minutes, and the heating rate is about 10°C per minute. The chamber curve of temperature versus elapsed time is shown in Figure 6.

Thermal cycle temperature profile-0°C to 100°C.

The thermal cycle test was terminated after 3000 cycles. Measure the resistance of all components before and after the thermal cycle test for fault detection. The samples were subjected to cross-sectional analysis before and after the thermal cycling test.

Measure the thickness of the intermetallic layer of solder joints assembled with various lead-free alloy solder pastes. For SAC 305 materials and other lead-free high melting temperature alloys, the thickness of the intermetallic layer on the PCB side after the reflow process is between 2 μm and 2.5 μm. After the SnBiAg reflow process, the thickness of the intermetallic layer on the PCB side is less than 1 μm. The thin layer formed when using this alloy is due to the use of a low temperature reflow profile. It is worth noting that during the thermal cycle test, the IMC layer of SnBiAg significantly increased to about 2μm, which is similar to the thickness of the intermetallic layer of other lead-free alloys tested. After the thermal cycle test, the IMC thickness of SAC 305 and other low/silver-free superalloys did not change significantly. After reflow and thermal cycle testing, the thickness of the intermetallic layer on the PCB side is shown in Figure 7.

 After reflow and thermal cycling tests, measure the thickness of the intermetallic layer on the PCB side.

The thickness of the intermetallic layer on the component side after the reflow treatment is about 1.5 μm to 2 μm. It is slightly thinner than the IMC on the PCB side. Similarly, after the thermal cycle test, the IMC thickness on the component side of the replacement low-silver superalloy did not change significantly. After the reflow process, the IMC thickness of low-temperature SnBiAg is very thin (~1.2μm). After the thermal cycle test, the thickness increased to about 1.7 μm. The thickness of the intermetallic layer on the component side is shown in Figure 8.

The thickness of the intermetallic layer at the component interface after reflow and thermal testing.

The cross-sections of all components are performed after the reflow process. Generally, good solder joints are observed for alternative alloys. For most BGA components of SnBiAg solder paste reflow, it was found that the mixing was not complete. Due to the low temperature profile used for SnBiAg solder paste, uneven solder joints were observed. You can also see that there are large components on the headrest (HiP) solder joints, such as BGA1156 reflowed with SnBiAg solder paste. Figure 9 shows a cross-sectional view of a BGA solder joint reflowed with an alternative alloy solder paste.

Cross-sectional image of the BGA 196 component after the reflow process.

A scanning electron microscope (SEM) was used to further analyze the alloy's solder joint microstructure. The Cu6Sn5 intermetallic compound layer is a common feature of all alloy solder joints. For SAC305 solder joints, Sn IMC and Ag3Sn and Cu6Sn5 intermetallic compounds are mostly found in solder joints (Figure 10a). Sn / Ag3Sn binary eutectic and Sn / Ag3Sn / Cu6Sn5 ternary eutectic regions are both visible at the grain boundaries of Sn dendrites. The existence of Sn / Ag3Sn binary eutectic indicates that Cu6Sn5 is the final stage of solidification. In the samples reflowed with SAC0307 solder paste, the reduction of Ag content in SAC0307 solder paste resulted in a decrease in the number of Ag3Sn particles in the solder joint microstructure and the formation of larger Sn dendrites (Figure 10b). The large area of ​​Ag3Sn/Sn binary eutectic is not visible. The microstructure of the solder joints of material C after reflow shows that most of the Cu6Sn5 particles in the solder appear smaller in material C than in SAC0307 (Figure 10c). However, compared with SAC0307, ​​the doped alloy did not show any statistically significant difference in the composition or thickness of the intermetallic layer. The BGA solder joints of the two alloys are also similar, very similar to the all-SAC305 component, although the size of the Ag3Sn particles is slightly reduced in both cases.

The microstructures of the solder joints of SnCuNi and material D are shown in Figure 10d and Figure 10e, respectively. The solder pastes of both alloys do not contain silver. A Cu6Sn5 intermetallic compound layer was seen in the solder joints. Compared with other superalloys, the solder joints of material D show a uniform distribution of Cu6Sn5 particles, and the grain size of Sn dendrites is smaller. Cu6Sn5 grains are usually larger than those in SnCuNi, which is an Ag-free alloy with a higher Cu content than material D. This means that Cu6Sn5 is formed as the main phase, and the degree of supercooling is lower than expected.

In the microstructure of SnBiAg solder joints, most of the solder joints are composed of Bi and Sn dendrites (Figure 10f). Small grains of Ag3Sn can be seen at the grain boundaries, and Cu6Sn5 particles can also be seen near the pads. Note that after the reflow process, the Bi dendritic boundary is not well defined.

SEM images of QFN solder joints are reflowed with various alloy solder pastes. a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) material C; d) SnCuNi; e) material D; f) SnBiAg.

Table 3 summarizes the thermal cycle test results of different components reflowed with different lead-free alloy solder pastes.

Thermal cycling test results.

Generally, SAC305 has better thermal reliability than other low-silver alloy materials. Thermal reliability performance depends on component type and component design/material. After 3000 cycles (0°C to 100°C), some BGA 196 components, BGA228 components, BGA97 components and resistor 2512 components were observed to fail completely. A large crack was found at the solder joint. After the thermal cycle test, the cross-sectional view of the BGA196 solder joint is shown in Figure 11.

Cross-sectional image of BGA196 component after 3000 thermal cycles. a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) Material C; d) SnCuNi; e) Material D; f) SnBiAg.

Most cracks occurred on the component side of the package, although some cracks were also observed on the PCB side. The solder joints reflowed with SnBiAg also had cracks at the interface between the SAC305 solder ball and the SnBiAg solder paste. The cross-sections of the 2512 resistor and QFN88 components after the thermal cycle test are shown in Figure 12 and Figure 13, respectively. The solder joints of these components showed severe cracks.

Cross-sectional view of R2512 solder joint assembled with different lead-free alloy solder paste after 3000 thermal cycles a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) material C; d) SnCuNi; e) material D; f) SnBiAg .

: Cross-sectional images of QFN solder joints assembled with different lead-free alloy solder pastes after thermal cycle testing. a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) material C; d) SnCuNi; e) material D; f) SnBiAg.

After the thermal cycle test, no failures of some BGA components were observed, such as BGA1156 (1.0mm pitch, 35mmx35mm) and BGA64 components (0.8mm pitch, 8mm X 8mm). Only small cracks were observed. The cross section of the BGA1156 component is shown in Figure 14. In this study, QFP components also showed slight cracks, and no failure was observed (Figure 15).

Cross-sectional image of BGA1156 solder joint after thermal cycling test. a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) material C; d) SnCuNi; e) material D; f) SnBiAg.

Cross-sectional images of QFP208 solder joints assembled with different lead-free alloy solder pastes after thermal cycle testing. a) SAC305; b) SAC0307; c) material C; d) SnCuNi; e) material D; f) SnBiAg.

SEM equipment was used to analyze the microstructure of various alloys after thermal cycle testing. In the SAC305 solder joint, the formed bulk Cu6Sn5 particles and Ag3Sn particles have begun to elongate (Figure 16). Some intergranular cracks can be seen between the Sn dendrites and the boundaries between dendrites and intermetallic species. Cracks along the intermetallic layer were also observed.

After thermal cycle testing, the Ag3Sn board in QFP solder joints assembled with SAC305 solder paste was formed.

The use of SAC0307 solder reduces the number and size of Ag3Sn crystal grains. Unlike SAC305, thermal cycling does not result in the formation of larger Ag3Sn plates (Figure 17). However, the dislocations along the grain boundaries are visible and are more extensive than those of SAC305, which indicates that the coarsening of Sn dendrites does increase its tendency to crack.

After thermal cycle testing, the microstructure of QFN88 solder joints assembled with SAC0307 solder paste.

Material C behaves similarly to SAC0307, ​​showing a large number of cracks along the grain boundary in almost all samples. Compared with SAC0307, ​​BGA solder joints show a decrease in the growth rate of Ag3Sn particles. In the lower half of the material C BGA solder joints, larger Cu6Sn5 particles were observed (Figure 18).

The microstructure of QFN88 solder joints assembled with material C solder paste after thermal cycle testing.

For solder joints composed of SnCuNi solder, the Cu3Sn layer adjacent to the PCB pad is the thinnest, indicating that the insertion of Ni into the intermetallic layer reduces the diffusion rate within the crystal structure (Figure 19).

The microstructure of QFN88 solder joints assembled with SnCuNi solder paste after thermal cycle testing.

After the thermal cycle test, the microstructure of the solder joint of material D is relatively not rough. You can see tin dendrites and Cu6Sn5 (Figure 20). There are several possible explanations for the little coarsening observed. First of all, it has been previously proved that Co can replace Cu in Cu6Sn5 grains, thereby introducing substitution defects that inhibit coarsening [6]. It is known that the presence of low concentrations of Bi will produce a Zener effect on Sn grains, thereby increasing the energy barrier to grain growth [7]. BGA cracks mainly occur at the bottom of the solder joint, rather than the top. Under strain, the more brittle solid-solution tin base formed by material D is easier to crack than the more ductile tin base at the top of the solder joint (its composition is close to SAC305).

After thermal cycle testing, the microstructure of QFN88 solder joints assembled with material D solder paste.

Figure 21 shows the typical microstructure of SnBiAg after thermal cycling. So far, SnBiAg solder joints have grown the most in intermetallic compound layers, some of which have more than doubled their thickness in thermal cycling tests. The thickness of the intermetallic layer becomes comparable to that formed by other solder alloys, which indicates that the thin layer observed before the thermal cycle test is at least partly a result of the low reflow temperature. The concentration of Sn in the solder seems to have little effect on the thickness of the intermetallic layer. The thickness of the formed Cu3Sn layer is similar to that of the SnAgCu alloy. Sn and Bi dendrites are coarsened. The sizes of Ag3Sn and Cu6Sn5 particles both increase. Cu6Sn5 particles are also found more frequently near the Cu pad, which indicates that during the thermal cycle test, Cu further dissolves from the pad into most of the solder.

The microstructure of QFN88 solder joints assembled using SnBiAg solder paste after thermal cycling.

For single alloy QFP and QFN components, four different typical failure modes are observed. For SAC305 solder joints, cracks mainly propagate along the Cu6Sn5 and Ag3Sn intermetallic compounds in most of the solder (Figure 22). As shown in Figure 23, the single alloy solder joints assembled from SAC0307, ​​material C and SnCuNi (almost no intermetallic compounds) all show signs of ductile fracture at the grain boundary between Sn dendrites. Cracking observed with SAC305 in the same component. Compared with these three alloys, the degree of cracking of material D is smaller. The crack seems to spread in the Sn grain boundary (Figure 24). SnBiAg solder joints showed different failure modes. The cracks are mainly formed due to the sliding of grain boundaries (Figure 25). The embrittlement caused by the dissolution of bismuth in the tin matrix also cracks the tin grains.

Typical cracks in QFP208 solder joints assembled with SAC305: ductile fractures propagating along the grain boundaries of intermetallic species.

In QFP208 solder joints assembled using SAC0307, ​​cracks along the Sn grain boundary.

QFN88 solder joints assembled with material D cracked along the tin grain boundaries.

QFN88 solder joints assembled with SnBiAg solder paste have cracks.

In BGA solder joints, due to the mixing of alloys, different effects have been observed. For most components, cracks that propagate along the grain boundaries of intermetallic species within most solder joints are observed. However, the severity of this cracking depends on the solder paste alloy. When using any of the four high-temperature low-silver alloys, more cracking seems to occur.

When using material D solder, an increase in ductile fracture at the bottom of the solder joint was observed. It can be expected that the solder joints formed by this alloy are more brittle than other alloys. As a result of the addition of Bi, the upper part of the SAC305-based solder joint has greater plastic deformation than the lower part, and the content of Bi may be higher.

After the thermal cycle test, many BGA solder joints assembled with SnBiAg solder paste are still uneven. The creep deformation of the BGA solder joints can be seen. Grain boundary sliding occurs at the bottom of the solder ball, mainly composed of Sn and Bi dendrites. It was observed that for some BGA components, SnBiAg solder joints had fewer cracks than low-silver superalloys, while for other BGA components, cracks were larger. The cracks in the SAC305 area are not as common as the cracks in the SnBiAg area, which is easier to deform under strain. In some cases, cracks can be seen at the interface between the SnBiAg and SnAgCu regions of the BGA

There is no significant difference in the thickness of the intermetallic layer of the solder joints assembled with SAC305 and other alternative high-temperature, low-silver, lead-free alloy solder pastes (SAC0307, ​​SnCuNi, material C, material D). Generally, the IMC thickness of these materials slightly increases after the thermal cycle test, but the change is negligible. After the reflow process, the IMC thickness of SnBiAg solder joints is usually thinner than that of high-temperature lead-free alloys. During the thermal cycle test, the IMC layer of the SnBiAg solder joints increased, reaching an IMC thickness similar to other lead-free alloys. During the thermal cycle test, the thickness and composition of the intermetallic compound layer have not been determined to affect the reliability of solder joints.

The thermal reliability of the optional lead-free solder joints depends on the package type and component size. In our research, the influence of this factor on the thermal reliability of solder joints is greater than the influence on the composition of solder paste alloys. Compared with other test components, the 2512 resistor failed first. After 3000 thermal cycles (0°C to 100°C), most 2512 resistors failed completely and severely cracked. After the test, no complete failure of small chip components (such as 0603, 0402, 0201 components) was observed. After the thermal cycle test, it was also found that BGA196, BGA228, BGA97 and QFN88 had severe cracking and some failures. BGA1156, BGA64, QFN32, QFP208 and QFP100 components were not slightly cracked, and no malfunctions were found. Generally, solder joints assembled with SAC305 solder paste are still better than low-silver alloy solder paste. Unexpectedly, when the low temperature SnBiAg solder joint is a single alloy in the solder joint, it performs well after the thermal cycle test. When SAC 305 BGA and SnBiAg solder paste were reflowed together, more defects and malfunctions were found. For other lead-free alloy solder paste materials, further reliability studies should be conducted.

The author would like to thank Elissa McKay and Tu Tran of the AEG laboratory for their help in the cross-section and failure analysis of this study.

1. J. Smetana, R. Coyle, P. Read, T. Koshmeider, D. Love, M. Kolenik and J. Nguyen, "The thermal cycle reliability screening of a variety of lead-free tin ball alloys",

,year 2010.

2. G. Henshall et al., "INEMI lead-free alloy characterization project report: Part I program objectives, experimental structure, alloy characterization and accelerated thermal cycle test program"

,2012.

3. K. Sweatman et al., "iNEMI Lead-Free Alloy Characterization Project Report: Part Three-Thermal Fatigue Results of Low Silver Alloys"

4. Jennifer Nguyen and others, "Assembly process feasibility of low/non-silver alloy solder paste materials"

, San Diego, 2013.

5. S. Sakuyama, T. Akamatsu, K. Uenishi, T. Sato, Trans. Japan Institute of Electronics. Packaging V.2, 2009, pages 98-103.

6. IE Anderson, BA Cook, JL Harringa, RL Terpstra, J. Electron. Alma Mater V.31, 2002, pp. 1166-1174.

7. H. Shimokawa, T. Soga, K. Serizawa, Mater. Trans V.8, 2002, pages 1808-1815.

With the transition from low-mix manufacturing to high-mix manufacturing, the need to optimize the production capacity of multiple batches of different products is essential to maximize manufacturing output. The overall production line utilization rate...

The first thing to learn in electronics is how to recognize the value of a resistor. Through-hole resistors have color codes and are usually where beginners start. But why mark them like this? Just like the red stop sign and yellow line are in the middle of the road, it actually seems to have always been this way.

Before the 1920s, manufacturers marked parts in any old way, just as manufacturers liked to mark them. Then in 1924, 50 radio manufacturers in Chicago formed a trading group. The idea is to share patents among members. The name changed almost immediately from "Associated Radio Manufacturers" to "Radio Manufacturers Association" or RMA. In the past few years, there will be more name changes, until it eventually becomes EIA or Electronic Industry Alliance. EIA actually no longer exists. It exploded into several specific parts, but this is another story.

This is a story about how the ribbon enters every through-hole resistor from every manufacturer in the world.

By the late 1920s, RMA developed standards, one of which was the RMA standard for color coding. The problem is that marking small parts is difficult, especially in the 1920s.

The solution is ribbon, but it is not as we know it today. The color standard is the same, but the main body of the resistor is the first frequency band. Then there will be another two or three bands showing the remaining values. In some cases, the third band is actually a point. Therefore, most of the resistors will be the first ribbon. The "tip" of the resistance will be the second frequency band, and the dot will be the multiplier. Radios using this scheme began to appear in 1930. This is the color code table in the 1941 Radio Today Yearbook:

Be careful with the advertisements in the magazine promoting resistors, they are RMA color coded. The code quickly expanded to capacitors (capacitors in modern terms).

Depending on the position of the resistor, this point may be hidden like the printed text on the cylinder. So in the end, everyone turned to the band.

The color should follow the visible spectrum (remember ROY G BIV?). However, RMA omits indigo because it is obvious that many people do not distinguish blue, indigo and purple into three different colors;

, Obviously. There are four slots left, so dark color represents the low end (black and brown) and bright color represents the high end (grey and white).

Of course, if you are color-blind, none of this is funny. Reading a resistor with a meter or bridge from the circuit is undoubtedly an answer. However, reading one in the circuit is another matter.

In 1952, the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC, another standards organization) defined the E series, which specified the value of resistance input so that the spacing on the logarithmic scale of the resistance was equal. If this sounds confusing, consider an example.

The E12 series is suitable for 10% resistors, and its value provides you with 12 values ​​every ten years. Basic value

This is why you can get a 4.7 K or 47 K resistor instead of a 40 K resistor.

However, please consider the tolerance. A 10% 39K resistor may disconnect 3.9K. If the error pushes the resistance higher, it is 42.9 K, so the 40 K resistor is not needed. In other words, in any case, a 39 K resistor is likely to be a 40 K resistor. On the other hand, the low 47K resistance may be 42.3 K, which is less than the high value of 39 K units.

As you might expect, when the tolerance decreases, the number of values ​​increases. For example, in the case of 2%, you will use E48, which has 48 values ​​per decade (if you guessed E96, the 1% standard uses 96 values, and you are correct). Using E48, the values ​​close to 40 K are 38.3 K and 40.2K. It is 39.06 on the high end and 39.2 on the low end.

Next time you pick up a resistor and read the code from it, you can review the history behind it. The remnants of the ribbon will continue to the surface mount area, not as a color, but as a multiplier representing the three-digit number of the first two numbers and the resistance value. Nowadays, many electronic devices (such as wireless modules and lithium batteries) contain a data matrix (similar to a QR code). To be honest, it surprised me that there is no microdata matrix of some kind on all components (through hole and surface mount) that allows you to point your phone at them and view their complete data sheet. Maybe one day.

Wow, the body color + belt + dot is a real improvement to the current beige plus color, it can be any scheme.

It always seems ridiculous that we label them, so, given that 10% of the male population is frankly color blind (red-green), more people have subtle shifts or simple color discrimination. Isn’t electronics the territory of mankind?

Then, I realized that in fact this kind of work has quickly become female dominance (and as far as I know, this kind of work continues to exist in the sweatshops of the Far East). – I may actually view these statistics. Women are far better than men in this subtle detail-oriented technique, and genetically speaking, they are more likely to suffer from color blindness and have to be more careful.

I will put my hands here. I use a cheap DMM to test the resistance and write it into the resistance bar. I know the color and how the marking should work, but frankly, whether it is black, brown or green (especially the cheap small resistors I ended up buying) is hard to be sure.

I also suffer from color blindness. The biggest trouble is between brown and red. I have to check with an electric meter every time. However, I found that if I take a picture with a digital camera and zoom in, I can distinguish the colors. Maybe my camera (unintentionally) changed the color, or maybe it's because of a larger sample?

I think it is difficult for everyone to find brown and red on old parts. Similarly, white can become yellow, yellow is pale enough, you want to know if it is dull white, and blue and purple can fade so much, you want to know if they are gray.

This one. There is no consistency between manufacturers, and if there is a value issue (making the color code meaningless), I usually find it easier to just use DMM. About time it gets updated. One person’s brown may be another’s orange, and so on. Hopefully, the next step will be to interpret haha's clear transistor labels without the need for an electron microscope.

^ THAT ^ and the color change that occurs when the resistor is overheated!

B ^)

If the resistor overheats, its value will also change. It is best to take the correct value from the schematic (if possible).

Ah, that 0 ohm 0% resistor.

When repairing the power supply, I found that many power supplies have accidentally installed 110 ohm 1% resistors.

You don't need expensive 0R 1% resistors, you can use cheap 0R 20% types :-)

I think that it is more common than color blindness that many cheap and efficient light bulbs produce poor color rendering. Normally, orange and red will look brown. In some cases, it is difficult for me to distinguish purple from blue or black.

Sorry, I forgot to include "Many people don't distinguish between blue, indigo and purple".

The shocking answer to this is that this defect is clearly psychological to a large extent (especially because of the transparency of the lens, people have subtle color cast defects).

But just as the painter or the people you spend all day around the swatches seem to have the superpower of color discrimination, so do the people whose language is clearly distinguished in color by name.

Native Russian speakers are faster than English speakers in distinguishing light blue from dark blue (goluboy or goluboy in Russian).

[reference

with

It is precisely because the words in Russian are so different (tested by people who learn and speak Russian, better than people who have never learned Russian). Wow.

There is no indigo in the Russian rainbow. Instead, it is "light blue, blue, purple".

This seems a bit strange, because I would say that cyan precedes blue, and it is not "light" but green.

Well, cyan ("blue") is somewhere between green and blue ("indigo"). Before entering the computer, I have never heard the word Cyan, here is "turquoise", Americans call it "teal". Therefore, it is no wonder that it is not widely used. Yes, it is green, but I think if you shift the sample further to blue, it will look less green and more light blue. In any case, this is a language problem. Obviously, it is difficult for Eskimos to distinguish certain colors visually because there is no word in their language. It's really not surprising, I bet they have a lot to say about "white people".

The language/visual connection is real. Without a word, you usually don't distinguish colors well. According to Stephen Frye (QI) about QI, the ancient Greeks did not have the word "blue", for them the sky was "bronze". However, whether it is true or false, it is a QI fact of about 50:50. Generally speaking, the same applies to most things that technologist Stephen Fry said.

"Cyan" has been used in photography for more than 50 years and is part of the subtractive color triplet "cyan, yellow, magenta".

In printing, it may also be the most famous. Including consumer printers. However, most people are still not printers or professional photographers. In addition to making their own color film, do photographers need to use these colors in large quantities? Photography uses the RGB color model, which is the output of modern camera sensors. Even internally, they use more innovative colors in the color filters.

A young man named John Savard / Quadibloc owns the most interesting personal website of mental bric-a-brac. He is a very smart person. He has a page about filters used by the camera, not just Bayer, but also his own suggestions. You can use other colors to let more light through, then mathematically find the color of the pixel from each of the three sensors, and perform some addition and subtraction operations. Letting more light in almost always means higher quality and accuracy. Of course, the exposure time can be made shorter and the noise is also less.

Blue-green is blue-green, and blue-green is blue-green.

Only color-blind Americans call cyan blue-green "blue-green", because ordinary people only regard blue-green or "blue" or "green" as a category, so they don't have to worry about being so specific between similar colors.

Teal is not common among artists outside the United States, but any American who can see colors knows cyan and cyan. But they still call it "blue" or "green" most of the time.

Blue-green is only a greener one than cyan. When I set the grayscale on a color TV, I will start by establishing cyan. There is a sweet spot in the middle between blue and green. Once the requirements are met, red will be brought up to create white.

Too much, it looks brown, although some people do like to turn red, if the audience who raises the color control on their scene has the right to vote. I personally prefer "flattering" answers to borrow Hi-Fi terminology.

Why is it cyan? If I guessed it, it seems to me a quirk. But this is something you don't mind watching, because the most difficult part of the TV image, the skin tones of various people and the woods (tables, walls, cabinets) all look like they should be. If I can take advantage of this quirk, my customers will be happy. Yes, I do have a photography background.

However, as I grow older, I am now facing presbyopia. This will affect my ability to look at work. If I want to see the tiny details, I prefer the +3.25 card reader. What a pity, because I was able to solder SMD ICs with my naked eyes. Not so much anymore. At least night vision and color sensitivity.

Fun fact-In Welsh, the same word is used to denote the color of grass and sky.

The ancient Greeks called the sky "bronze"

Is it just me, or do other people have problems when distinguishing the color code that the resistor body is some strange brown or green color? But also noticed that compared with male colleagues, female technicians and engineers have less trouble distinguishing colors.

With SMT things, this has become meaningless.

I think this part is related to color blindness, which is more common among men. And it is more common in the red and green parts of the spectrum (brown has a lot of red).

From my experience, it seems that women see more colors than men because I have been tested for color blindness and it is normal, but it is difficult for me to distinguish shades of pink. The color is usually called salmon, peach, pulp...

There are many good things for color vision on the second X chromosome. I am color blind and I absolutely despise the old color coded long resistors. the worst. Can't we stop doing this and just print small text on them as we do with all other types of components now?

I assembled a small object, which includes a disposable multimeter and two Y-shaped brackets made of wires. I can put a resistor into it and read its value quickly. Of course, it has no effect on reading the value of a resistor that is already part of the circuit. I mean, one in ten men is color-blind, and even more people have difficulty coloring even without a generalized disease-how did this marking scheme pass? Or at least why does it still pass? This is not the seventies anymore, we can print out detailed details on these things.

They also chose the absolute worst color for the beige background and the most used bands. They are really addicted to brown, green, red, orange, yellow and other junk colors, which are the most laborious colors in deuteron eyes.

They can print beautiful details on things, but can you read it? SMD resistors are flat and rectangular, usually larger than through-hole resistors. Stripes are definitely more suitable for small cylinders. There are also printing costs, which must be very cheap for the profit of resistors. Small exquisite printers may be beyond their management capabilities. The printing on the SMD is shaking enough.

What I see with one eye is a little blue, but the other eye sees more red. Therefore, one eye may be a little red, while the other eye lacks blue. Both eyes have (I think) the correct color.

Maybe you are developing cataracts! Otherwise, as you age, your lenses will turn yellow. There is a famous artist who I have forgotten. As he grew up, he suffered similar pain. Compared with when he was young, experts have studied his paintings, which have a completely different palette from when he was old. Together with experts, they analyzed the colors and accurately matched some age-related color degradation. The painting from the middle shows the progress between states, even along the correct time scale.

Do not!

He just forgot to take off his 3D glasses!

To be sure, there is almost no difference between the normal color vision of men and women.

Some women are tetrachromatic and can provide better color vision, but this is certainly not the norm.

However, in addition to the common red/green, there are other forms of reduced color vision.

Wow! I don't know that some people are four-color, so I did a web search.

Explains the concept that men can only see in primary colors :-)

What exactly is "purple"? ?

Therefore, 10% of men are colorblind (most of them are dichromatic, such as 0.1% of women), and theoretically 15% are tetrachromatic (0% of men).

There are considerable differences imo

But as far as I know, in any of my research from color change to a thorough and better distinction between women, there has never been a visual difference between men and women. Some of it may be the psychology I described above.

"Another study showed that up to 50% of women and 8% of men may have four pigments and the corresponding increase in chromatic aberration compared with trichromatic mirrors."

Yes, I found out that I had this problem a few years ago. The solution is to ensure that my entire workshop is equipped with fluorescent lamps. Incandescent lighting will only make the problem worse.

Due to the toxicity of marking dyes, many modern SMD resistors leave the factory without marking at all. Switching to other types of bulbs will not help, you must be organized.

…true? First of all, I have heard of it. Don't think that ink is highly toxic in the field of electronic components. Organizing is a good idea.

Most SMD components are applied by machines, and they don't have to bother trying to read them. Through holes are still used by hobbyists and prototyping staff because they can be used with breadboards.

No one tells you, shouldn't you eat electronic parts? :-) But even if you do, the two most common white pigments, titanium dioxide or zinc oxide, are non-toxic. I think it is even classified as a food additive. Only lead-based pigments should be avoided.

I think this is just a cost factor for printing on small 0402 or even smaller components. Resistors in 0603 and higher are still marked.

In Australia, I have seen many foreign tourists asking how to tell which snakes are poisonous.

I just told them I didn't know because I don't eat snakes.

That may just be part of your luck. Usually the cause of the problem is fluorescent lighting, because the peak spectrum may have a tilt aligned with the color band, making orange or red look brown, etc.

High-wattage incandescent lamps (not dim, light yellow 40w bulbs, etc.) will have "perfect" color rendering, so they are actually the best choice for distinguishing colors.

A high-quality fluorescent lamp or LED is almost as good, so if your fluorescent lamp has a good uniform spectrum, or has a peak in the right position without causing any interference, you are good, but if you want to Choose a lighting fixture workbench and read the many color codes, it is best to try any lights you plan to use before submitting to them.

What I want to say is that only sunlight (6000K) can have perfect colors. Unfortunately, incandescent bulbs are limited by the melting point of tungsten. Therefore, for some rooms, I prefer to use 6000K LEDs. Although the color rendering of some rooms is really poor, you must choose a good room with a high CRI.

LED mainly adjusts the color temperature by changing the amount of blue light in a very narrow frequency band-therefore, it is a low CRI light with lower blue light. It does not help you see colors, because the iris of the eye mainly responds to blue light, so by having a strong peak, the eye restricts the amount of light entering the retina, causing the other side to lose color contrast. Because of the Purkinje effect (Purkinje effect) at the end of the spectrum (red becomes black).

Ironically, due to its nature, cos incandescent lamps have a full spectrum. Although they may lack the power of blue, their light is usually yellowish. The solution to this problem may be to throw more photons and fluorescent lights are brighter, although yes, cool white lights also have more blue.

The color temperature of the halogen bulb is slightly higher.

When the light level drops, the sensitivity of the eyes to red wavelengths decreases and blue increases. When the natural color temperature starts to shift to red, we react to seeing the color "correctly" under sunset conditions.

I don't think it is necessarily color blind (@zé) or lighting (@Medix). Those cheap resistors with almost lime green are really scary. I think the paint they used for the stripes was a bit too transparent, or maybe it was applied when the body paint was still wet, so it was mixed. Either way, the colors will be mixed and become something that only people with extensive mixing palette experience can read.

Lime green! I have seen light blue, but most resistors are official "salmon". I think the 11th color must be found, not to be confused with the other 10 colors too much, and they have used gold and silver, it must be a challenge! It would have been easier to genetically transform more cone cells into engineers.

Okay, not exactly lemon green, a little darker, but this is the closest shade I want to talk about. I received them when I bought very cheap items from Ebay sellers in China. I also saw them being soldered to the PCB of consumer electronics. They are really hard to read, and I often have to use an electric meter. I hate to do this, because then I don't know if this is the actual expected resistance or out of specification. Will the latter be stable? It is best to only buy new ones. Although you don't want to wait a month or more, it is becoming increasingly difficult to do so now.

When working on art, my color discrimination is above average, but I often look at a resistor obliquely under bright light. It is different from the colors used by other manufacturers and lies between the two colors. Their bad colors made me question my vision.

I hesitated and said: "Well, it's nearly 5% more than this color, so it must be this color!"

I try to remember that before squinting too much, the DMM can reach and is faster.

I'm not a color-blind person, but I agree that the color codes of modern resistors are harder to read than those of the 60s, which have a dark brown body and opaque color stripes.

Cataracts and age-induced retinal dystrophy can also cause loss of color vision. Especially in the first case, as people get older, everyone’s lenses will become a bit foggy, which can cause a drop in contrast and saturated color perception-the brain is used to it, so you don’t notice until it really deteriorates.

I believe Bill will not talk about his memory of resistors for more than 50 years.

You can compare old resistors in old equipment with modern equipment to understand the difference Bill said.

I am dealing with many old-fashioned technologies, and I can confirm his words.

Thank you for confirming that this is true. I don’t like to do this when people are skeptical of random guesses such as those mentioned above, which indicate that serious health problems are the cause (or other human “defects”). Luke's answer was (probably unintentionally) a rather hostile reaction.

This is a general reaction, indirectly indicating that the "observer"/human being is always at fault (due to imperfection) and defending the problematic technology/solution/method.

A mentality that is too common among various technicians.

I don't think a person will be hostile unconsciously. Maybe not sensitive. Although on the other hand, they can also be paranoid, spiny and overly sensitive.

If you are using a resistor 50 years ago, it is not unreasonable to assume that it is 50 years ago. There are many grocery stores here! This may not be the case for you, but guesses based on forum posts are acceptable guesses. You can refute it freely, just like in the past.

Everyone’s eyesight is declining. Especially those who spend a lot of time looking at the screen while the rest is staring at tiny colored stripes. Therefore, this is not an unreasonable assumption.

Again, you can refute. It's ok. Don't feel sad, that guy doesn't know you. This is just a suggestion based on part of the information in the forum posts. For many people who cannot see the colors of modern resistors, this is their age! Belongs to the best of us. Wait until your eyes start to spin, and then you will find gray hair everywhere on your head and body!

Strangely, when I was middle-aged, my eyes lost some flexibility. The optician said it was normal. But in this way, I can now read better without glasses, including computers. I am cured! Unless there are far away places, I still need them. Therefore, when I mess up my phone or read something, I tend to stare at them like a clever guide, and then push them back into my nose when I actually see them. In front of the computer, I just took them off. Put them on the table. They are there!

Making assumptions about health is never a good thing.

My eyesight gradually weakened, and I could barely see even with glasses.

My lung function dropped to 52%. I was diagnosed with COPD and I was looking forward to spending a short life in a wheelchair because my lung function gradually declined so that I could not support my vital organs.

Now, my lung function has reached 98%. A recent eye exam showed that my vision is better than the average vision of my peers, and there are no people wearing glasses.

I found that my condition was the result of toxin exposure, not related to age. I left the environment where the toxin was.

Never think that health begins with age, otherwise you may be left behind and fall into a debilitating state that does not require pain.

It is indeed difficult for me to distinguish certain colors, but not always.

Stupid aging eyes;}

I did not consider how the color of the resistor body might change, I must pay attention next time.

But even if it doesn't, my red/orange will mix, and my brown/purple will mix.

Just the night before, I had a 5-band resistor, and I swear that the gold band was always yellow, and then cursed my eyes again until I noticed that the 4th band was purple.

The brown-black-black-purple "gold" will be 1 billion ohms, which (useless) makes no sense.

It is strange to realize that I knew the correct color at one time and read silly things backwards. That is 1% 470.

There is indeed a gigaohm resistor. Usually, they are not color-coded, but I am pretty sure I have seen at least one color with normal "stripes".

I have done a lot of work in audio equipment electronics and condenser microphone preamplifiers. Very high resistance resistors are common. Sometimes as much as ten megohms.

The resistance of the grease left on the finger may be less than 10 megohms.

Next step-what is the range of 0 ohm 5% resistance?

I do have some zero ohm resistors. Of course, a single black belt lacks tolerance information.

But your comments did make me want to draw my own silver or gold bands at the end and somehow try to get them back into the wild.

Can you imagine the look on that person's face ten years from now? >:}

Once upon a time, I ordered a roll of 1206 zero ohm resistors, and Digikey sent me a roll of 1206 fuses. I realized that I can't say that they gave me the wrong part, it's just not the part I ordered.

According to my experience, the range is about 5 meters.

The joke is that when you look at the data sheet for zero ohm resistors, many times they do specify tolerances.

The product code of this resistor is RC0603FR-070RL, where RC0603 is the size, F is ±1%, R is the reel type, 07 is the reel size, 0R is zero ohms, and the last L represents a custom label. When ordering these parts, if needed, you can technically order a resistance with a zero ohm resistance of 5%. Anyone will guess what you will get.

Ima buys cheap Volt or Leaf batteries. The battery has been burned out and equipped with a zero-ohm resistance container with a tolerance of 5%. It is tested to find out the resistance of less than 5% ohm, and then the car Drive away and sell the rest of the back.

*Starting from 0 ohms, derp, should be obvious from the context, but for nitpickers...

If you bought it from eBay, then 5% of the time will be a 0.4 ohm resistor.

@RW: 5% of zero is still zero.

Also, please don't forget that some of them have very high TK, up to 4380ppm/K.

But for most "zero-ohm jumpers", they do not specify a tolerance, but a maximum value. Value, for example 50 milliohms.

The "maximum" is also strange. A manufacturer provides a 200V 0R jumper in the case of the "working voltage" specification, which will be huge power.

Oh, I know they exist, but I have never bought or used anything myself, so it doesn't make sense to put them in my parts box.

Of course, the parts bin may resemble a garbage drawer. I found someone there somehow only surprised me a little.

1 Gohm, what glass are they made of?

Never understand why smd capacitors have no code for resistance

This is because the assembling robot does not query the physical map like we do. Compared with girls who do more complex jobs, they are paid higher.

I guess this is because SMD parts are directional, there is an "up" part that can identify troublesome parts from any angle, and these parts have no codes, and the space on the parts is not too small.

There is no "left" or "right" for through-hole resistors. Or think about it "upward". You can determine the end that starts with gold/silver/no streaks at one end. The same thing can work like a cylinder on a rectangle.

Don't fucking tempt them! Their actual numbers are much better than those bad, useless colors! They should modify these numbers in turn and place them on the resistors.

useless. Until you use low TC parts printed with that value, but the machine that loads them puts all the values ​​on the PCB. The schematic is not helpful, because the code is under the part. Read the documentation carefully until you find the board layout, then cross-reference the schematic and know the value after 5 minutes, and you can continue troubleshooting-if you remember why the value is needed.

I also don't think SMD resistors should be installed in reverse. The resistive element is usually on the top, so if it is mounted on a board, the maximum dissipation may be worse.

do not know! I always thought they were a mixture of various solids such as carbon and binder. interesting!

No, they are usually mostly solid mixtures of aluminum and oxygen. Usually called Al2O3 ceramics. With a thin layer of metallic glass resistive glue.

In the Soviet Union, the denominator of resistance is represented by numbers

The link is broken or forbidden:-(

Just press ENTER in the URL line.

Unfortunately, it is not used today.

!

When I was very young, I learned how to read basic resistor color codes and never looked back. Of course, when I need a strange value in the parts kit, I still need to find something, but this is a value that has never been used before. I do admit that I first noticed this strangeness in a pamphlet about standards published by Radio Shack a few years ago.

Interesting article-thanks! But I am still confused about the concept of E series and tolerance. I have heard two explanations:

1. The most common situation is that 10% of the resistance is random, and the error may be as high as 10%. For example, due to the manufacturing process I think, a 100 ohm resistance may be between 90 and 110 ohms. However, I have never been able to find relevant basic statistics. Does this mean that the resistor has an average value of 100, a standard deviation of 10, and a Gaussian distribution? Or, the distribution can be uniform between 90 and 110 ohms? If anyone has a good reference, I would appreciate it.

2. The "non-random" interpretation of the E series is that if the design requires resistance R, the nominal value is always within 10% of the required R value, and with a 10% resistor, the designer will never exceed the required sum The error between the nominal resistance values ​​is 10%. Does this mean that resistance randomness is not assumed? (That is, the actual R value is very close to the nominal value, otherwise there are two sources of error, namely the difference between the actual value and the nominal value and the randomness of the actual R value). Maybe a 10% 100 ohm resistor actually has a small standard deviation, maybe one ohm or less?

Any clarification would be great! If you are not an electronics expert, if this falls into the category of "stupid question", I have to apologize in advance!

There is also a third version:

3. The manufacturer measures and produces the same batch of resistors in batches. First, they remove 1% of the resistors, then 2% of the resistors, then 5%, and then 10%, and then discard the remaining resistors or sell them to night brands outside of China Retailer.

This means that the resistance of 10% will almost never be lower than 5% of the actual value, unless the factory issues an order to transfer part of the 5% or better bin to the 10% bin. In other words, unless you buy a 1% resistor or a 0.1% resistor, you will never get close to the actual value.

Good article, still really don't know why the band is needed in the first place. The new resistors illustrate their value, and the resistor is only replaced once about once, and the only time if it has burned out and the strap is not visible. If you want to clone the circuit, remove the part so that the trace can be seen. I think this might be useful for recycling, but I can't imagine that resistor manufacturers would want to help. Are they more useful when the cost of dmm is higher than the battery that comes with it?

I remember that I once found a resistor for laboratory use in a class. They use some 1/8w small resistors that have been in use for more than 20 years. Even with a microscope, it is impossible to distinguish yellow to brown and orange to gold. The lecturer didn't even know what they were, so he only gave 100% to everyone. Very useful stuff!

Well, the working performance of these belts is much better than that of cylindrical parts.

But none of your arguments are about ribbons, they are just against any form of labeling.

I guess that once the circuit is put into use, you no longer have to quote the part label, which gives you even greater motivation! (Completely a pun), but I am glad they are there.

If you consider older chips with nicks, it is more of a color issue. But now imagine this problem, even the poor engraving effect will only appear in the 360-degree rotation of your head!

Well, I often use old gears from Germany and Russia, and there is no problem with resistors playing their value in "plain text". But I must admit that I also know some color codes.

In the right way; this part may not need marking. We live in a world where half of the chips obtained on the board do not have a usable data sheet, and even many discreet components lack any kind of identification. I know the cost of these wire gauges is not high, but I also know that resistors are very cheap, so can I save a lot of money? If nothing else, please consider the school wasted hours on this... Get rid of the mark, these courses become useful things!

In my case, I usually buy the cheapest resistor that best suits my requirements. Sometimes they have blue bodies, and these lines make me unable to read or even new. Don't care at all, it's actually like looking at it from a visual appeal point of view. The minimum price per 100 units is reduced by $0.01, which is the part I want to buy, even if it is not marked.

Or, this may be a somewhat strange idea, and the manufacturing may like...provide each resistance value in several different colors. In this way, if your product may have 3 through-hole resistors, you can buy red, green and blue resistors, it is more difficult to use the wrong resistor, and it is easier to check the resistor used! Industrial machine vision cameras are expensive, and there is a big price difference between a camera that can check the correct skin tone and a camera that can read the ribbon. Unlike we see hundreds of through-hole resistors on modern boards... Generally, if you use them, they are only used for some high current projects.

Have you ever encountered a 30 ohm resistor, it obviously decided to have its own little rebellion, and can withstand greater resistance until it reads 330 ohm? This is the reason why the VCR does not work properly because it is in the circuit at the end of the IR LED of the tape detector.

Yes, but once you take them out of your school bag, they are practically useless! Of course, you will use a multimeter, but the striped ones are independent of any type of measurement required.

In terms of their Gaussian distribution, I think you will get "random" as in "random". unknown. This is the point. Therefore, you do not know the exact value of this one or any of the other hundred. It means that what it says is nothing more. Even if there is some known random distribution in the manufacturing process, how do you guarantee that they are boxed? Random is random, no more information!

I used to have a cheap DMM blowing a resistor.

According to the schematic, it needs about 111.1 ohms.

(I have the schematic because I built it with the Vellemann (?) kit.)

I checked the resistance with a reliable digital multimeter, found an equivalent resistance and soldered it!

This is an interesting idea. But I want to know whether it's not a big deal to prove that by making various series?

If the target value moves only slightly, 10% of one person may be 1% of another.

I guess the change from the scheme you described to the better scheme I made is to reduce the proportion of more resistors produced and sold in various series, making it easier to make low tolerance settings

The distribution of value largely depends on the manufacturer. Back in the bad age of carbon composite resistors (belonging to the Allen-Bradley category), a good carbon composite material manufacturer could almost control the quality of the entire batch of products at 5% or more even if they were labeled at the factory. Good level. 10% is sold as such. If trucks are parked by the lake for a day, they may absorb enough moisture to reduce the value of the moisture below the tolerance limit, so they must be baked to restore specifications.

Carbon film resistors are better and can be rubbed to high precision before coating. The same is true for metal films and cermets and any common technology today. Many modern trimmings are done with lasers instead of abrasion. If the manufacturer does not waste it, there is no excuse for a batch of 10% resistors without resistance within 5%.

There are other questions. Resistance has a temperature coefficient, and its value will drift with age. If a resistor must handle power close to its rated power, it will age faster. If you really need 1% resistors, you don’t want to buy resistors using technology that can produce cheaper 10% resistors and meet the specifications.

These choices are not entirely correct.

Resistance is set by material characteristics and size, both of which need to be controlled during the manufacturing process. The chemical reactions are relatively easy to keep consistent-volume and mass measurements have been well understood for centuries, and some laborious measurements have been used to make a large number of components. The formation of physical resistors is difficult to accomplish consistently, requires measurement and adjustment of each part (very expensive), or expects that the part is allowed to miss the target with a certain allowable tolerance. That will infer the Gaussian distribution.

Over time, the costs associated with this process dropped sharply. Early resistors may have tolerances of 20%, but the automation of manufacturing has allowed tighter tolerances to be achieved at ever-decreasing costs. However, when you want to manufacture 100,000 pcbs and 100 resistors, the price difference of each resistor is 1 cent, which is $100,000, so in most cases, parts with looser tolerances are a better choice.

When selecting this series, the given tolerance should be considered. It is almost certain that the measured resistance is closer to its specified resistance than the next value in the range (next direction). that's it. If you choose a 47K 10% resistor, it may be 42.3K to 51.7K. The next value (39K) in E12 can be 35.1K to 42.9K, and the next value (56K) can be 51.4K to 61.6K. Even at the 10% tolerance limit, if I want 47K resistance, I will most likely choose 47K. Now consider whether the tolerance is 20%, but still choose from E12. The range of 47K is from 37.6K to 56.6K. The overlap of 39K (31.2K to 46.8K) and 56K (44.8K to 67.2K) is very important-if I want a 47K resistor, any of the three values ​​can be provided. The measured resistance of the resistor marked 39K may be higher than the resistance marked 47K, and the measured resistance of the resistor marked 56K is less than the resistance marked 47K. In other words, it doesn't make sense to use the E12 range to select a resistance with a 20% tolerance, because it will not give you more certain values ​​than selecting from the E6 range. Similarly, for a tolerance of 10%, it is almost meaningless to choose from the E24 range, because it gives you less certainty than the E12 range. and many more…

Even if the process control is improved and the variance is reduced, the tolerance value is still only a guarantee. Although 47K 10% resistors manufactured today are more likely to measure 47K than resistors made 50 years ago, the outlier may still be 42.3K. In mass production, guarantee matters are very important. For most circuit designs, resistance values ​​outside the guaranteed range are disputed. Unless absolutely necessary, good circuit design does not require components to meet strict requirements, such as high-end analog electronic equipment (such as professional audio) or test and measurement equipment.

There are some techniques that can rely on the above techniques. Suppose I have a small part to sell in three versions, one is a normal specification, a value specification and a super high-end specification, and the design relies on the critical 50K resistor to some extent. I can simultaneously use 10% of the components in the E12 series to achieve all 3 specifications. First, I designed the circuit to distribute 50K resistors to multiple components. Normal specifications are connected in series to get 47K and 330 ohms. I relied on modern strict variance to create the specified 50.3K resistance. In the quality assurance process, the resistance and the product performance produced by it have passed the specification verification. The budget version has looser product specifications, which can be met by 99.9% of the components, and solves exceptionally serious abnormalities through a warranty plan. The super-spec model replaces a 300 Ohm resistor with a 470 Ohm trimmer potentiometer, which can be factory and after-sales calibration.

I'm pretty sure that your plan to use multiple components will not help, and will actually make the situation worse. If you are not lucky enough to buy a small part with all resistances at the low end of its range, the final accuracy will be even lower. On average, I don’t think there will be any difference. But in general, this will cause additional problems that cannot be solved.

In addition, you mean 3.3K, but we all know it.

Yes, I mean 3k3. Fart at the end of a long post.

Compared with one resistor, the purchase and installation cost of two resistors will not bring any additional problems. The distribution of two additive Gaussian distributions is itself Gaussian. Add the mean and variance.

However, there is no 50k resistor in E12. Not in E24 either. Even E48. Therefore, when choosing a "50K" resistor, would you choose a 47K average distribution or a 50.3k average distribution doubled the variance?

This is easy to visualize in R:

x = seq(40,56, length = 500)

plot(x, dnorm(x, mean = 47, sd = sqrt(2)), type = "l", lwd = 2, col = "blue", main ='normal distribution', xlim = c(40, 60), ylim = c(0,0.5), xlab ='R', ylab ='φμ,σ²(X)')

curve(dnorm(x, mean = 50.3, sd = 2), add = TRUE, type = "l", lwd = 2, col = "red")

The E24 series (usually 5%) allows you to reach 51k. Even there-two 5% resistors with a total resistance of 50.3k are a better choice:

plot(x, dnorm(x, mean = 51, sd = 1), type = "l", lwd = 2, col = "blue", main ='Normal Distribution', xlim = c (40, 60), ylim = c(0,0.5), xlab ='R', ylab ='φμ,σ²(X)')

curve(dnorm(x, mean = 50.3, sd = 1.41), add = TRUE, type = "l", lwd = 2, col = "red")

You must go to E96 to get 49.9k, but this is still not strict enough to meet the over-spec requirements you want to calibrate.

I did a rough Digigikey search on 1/8W through through-hole resistors (because after all this topic is about color codes). It is almost impossible to buy a 10% resistor today. So...Stackpole 1/8W 5% resistor is $0.00589, similar Vishay Dale 1% resistor is $0.0675.

If you build 100,000 small parts, the cost of using a single 1% resistor and two 5% resistors is $5572. If that can meet the market demand for small parts, it will be a very respected design choice.

In fact, my example is artificially designed, and given that there are many better options today, in their correct thinking, no one would choose a 10% tolerance for "some critical" components, let alone critical components . Horowitz and Hill will be shocked. What matters is not just tolerances, but also other attributes such as temperature coefficient and humidity resistance. In my defense, I did not say yes, but only said yes. The value selection in each resistance series can be traced back to the days when you might use a 10% tolerance. Even so, the trick is still valid, but today you will choose two 1% resistors so that the average value is close to the nominal value available only in E192. The comments on eevblog indicate that the difference in resistors is usually much better than expected. From their tolerance specifications.

Similarly, "the given tolerance should be considered when selecting this series. It is almost certain that the measured resistance is closer to its specified resistance than the next value in the range (next direction)."

I think this is for the manufacturer's sake. This means they can bin all resistors, regardless of their resistance value, almost every resistor they make will be within 10% of the resistance value of one or the other. As others have said, resistors within 1% are sold at a price of 1%, but with a tolerance of 10%, almost every resistor will have a place.

Logically speaking, those with a tolerance of 20% will be almost completely between the other values. Assume that everything that falls within 10% is removed and sold with better tolerances.

Chip resistors are sampled in batches and are not individually boxed. Due to the variation of NiCr thickness and the accuracy of the optical and motion control systems aimed at the laser used to trim them, there is still a normal distribution within each batch. In turn, these will depend on the life of the machine. Older machines, newer machines have better initial specifications, and the machines will wear out over time, reducing their performance. My view is that it is usually more advantageous to replace the production line with newer equipment and introduce a new product line with better specifications than trying to pick cherries in batches from an older production line. As a result, the older tolerances eventually become obsolete.

An example-Vishay TNPU chip resistors have a tolerance of +/- 0.02% and a temperature coefficient of 5ppm/C. Older product lines with larger 1% tolerances cannot achieve this goal. It is worth noting that high-precision chip resistors are usually thin-film NiCr, not thick-film. I guess that the film thickness is the control variable and the main reason for the increased tolerance.

Precision wirewound resistors are usually measured individually. For decades, their manufacturing process has not changed much. The process variables include iron core (diameter and cylindricity), welding wire (diameter, cylindricity and tension), and mechanical accuracy of spot welding and winding processes. Most of these are easy to control and can be mass-produced with high precision. However, the spool can only be wound with one resistor at a time. The resulting high production cost reduces the cost of a single measurement.

In all these areas, it is important to remember that good circuit design does not require strict tolerances unless necessary, and even today, this is much less. Few people now use discrete components to build A/D converters, so buying ICs is usually more effective. Wheatstone bridge? I know. Audio preamplifier? I know. The analog system has been replaced by the digital system. Bipolar transistor with MOSFET. Discrete resistors have mostly been downgraded to support roles, such as pull-ups and protections, and strict tolerances are not required in these applications. I would not be shocked if more 5% tolerance chip resistors with 102 and 103 values ​​are used than the sum of any other tolerance values.

I'm not sure about the resistors, but choosing 1% surface mount capacitors for 0.05% tolerance applications, it took a puzzling time. (They will be used at low temperatures and it is impossible to obtain more precise components.) Their distribution is definitely not Gaussian. In a batch, you will get about half closely clustered around some very specific values ​​and a bunch of outliers. The next batch will have a very different center value. We didn't bother to record those records that did not meet the specifications, but my qualitative impression is that a certain peak value is different from the calibration value by a fixed value. This is a huge peak with wide tails in both directions.

Similarly, they first select parts with higher tolerances from the lot.

It is basically a Gaussian distribution, because the process is not completely accurate, it will be biased to one side, and then the bell curve is divided into two according to the nominal value, and then all the parts with the highest accuracy are taken out to different warehouses .

If the cluster you measure is higher than the nominal value, then it should have a tail to the right, if it is lower than the nominal value, then it should have a tail to the left.

What I didn't get was that almost every introductory e-book stated the color code of the resistor at the beginning. But almost no one mentioned how to interpret the capacitor marking! Of course, in most cases, electrolysis is obvious, but not many disc capacitors.

As a child, I grew up before parts were cheap and ordered online, and the lack of any markings on most inductors was a strong limiting factor for my budding electronics hobby. I dream of reusing parts from garbage equipment, but most of them I can’t determine their value!

And it doesn't work. At the time, the L/C table was not an option for children's budget. Now everything is cheap!

Ceramic capacitors use the same system as SMD resistors... but the values ​​given are expressed in picofarads.

104⇒10 0000pF⇒100nF

473⇒47 000pF => 47nF

331⇒33 0 pF⇒330pF

Of course, with the help of the Internet, it is not difficult to find these days. But when resistor color codes are almost everywhere, why is this information not included in more of the initial electronic text?

Because it is difficult to write this part clearly, you can read it from the beginning before purchasing the book.

the same.

For years, I have been searching for information on how to read these old resistors and capacitors. At last!

Can't you find the color code of the resistor? In fact, it is given in every introductory electronic text. There is still no rhyme we are going to mention here... I am really surprised, "How to find a resistance value" or something in the Internet search must be resolved soon! Or, you just need to ask an electronic freak. I think your expectations are higher than expectations!

Stuart, I think this is problematic because the microfarad mentioned in the 1940s guide above. But then I noticed that it was distributed in two lines, not a typo... it said "Pico Farah". Didn't they have ancient Greeks in the 1940s? I think they just don't have an ISO standard!

Do not. This is not what we are talking about here at all! How did you read so much from the comments without knowing the content of the article?

What is not in these books is how to read old, vintage resistors, where the color code is not stripes. Even if you know the colors, when they are the main color, the base color and the dots, in what order do you read them? This is not the usual left-to-right streak.

When was the last time you saw the opening electronic text containing this information? I might doubt you, because you only read very old texts on electronic products, but I might want to know that micro-microelectronics is not old news for you.

I'm thinking, today someone's thinking is a few thousand times slower, right?

"Didn't they have ancient Greeks in the 1940s?"

Before learning electronics, I had never met a person who had studied ancient Greek or consulted ancient Greek.

I even read "Anabasis".

You know Mega, Wei, Wei Wei. I speak that kind of Greek! "Pico Farad", like they did not invent other scale words, even though they have capacitors that need them. Not entirely serious.

Yes, this is the case in terms of reading OLD resistance. Who knows what my brain is doing?

"Before I studied electronics, I had never met a person who had studied ancient Greek or consulted ancient Greek."

Have you seen such a married person?

Some analog meters have a capacitance range. Connect the capacitor in series with the meter and connect the 115 VAC 60 cycle power supply.

It will be your trouble to build your own clear bridge for capacitors, resistors and inductors. Using some known good components as references, you can even have calibrated measurement equipment.

I rarely use capacitors that can withstand 115VAC, and the actual power supply voltage (230V) is much less. Therefore, low-voltage methods are essential.

OMG, thank you Al!

I have a few humidors filled with humidors that look like the "Résistancesanciennes annees 50.jpg" picture. I am not sure if they are resistors or inductors, nor how to read their color codes. All I know is the band!

I think inductors older than that will have visible windings. Wire wound resistors may be like this! I really don't use those museum works in the actual tour. I want to measure their actual resistance with meters if needed. I think if they have drifted over the years, they will not drift anymore, but in fact, you can spend a lot of money to buy a humidor equipped with modern resistors. Maybe you can sell a few old records to someone who restores antique radios at once. Again, I don't want to rely on old components for anything connected to the mains. Even if my antique radio is still usable, I would not plug it in without supervision.

Although they are not useful for some museums, their value or rarity is not enough to be useful for museums. Take them as an example, you can show them as well as modern resistors and SMDs to show how they shrink over the years. It is interesting that we still use the same color code itself. You can keep them and hope they become valuable before your grandson dies. Or after a certain future end of the world, no one can get any more parts. You built a 2-way radio and you are known as a hero in the community. In addition, despite this... I would not use them because they are too rare, but there are as many as they are because they are definitely useless and unreliable.

"Maybe you can sell some old records to someone who restores antique radios at once."

What do you think of the day I bought them?

Everything I've read shows that the resistors in antique radios usually do. It is best to replace the capacitor. So.. If my radio does have a burnt-out resistor, it may be the result of a damaged lid that cannot be closed, then one of these resistors is likely to be a good resistor that was properly replaced on schedule.

If it has drifted a lot, I would not use it. I am afraid to believe it. Now that I know how to read their marks, I can finally test them! If they are available or useless.. I will determine eventually.

Nevertheless, although I admire and like to watch antique electronic products, I still spend more time on modern products. I only really own an antique radio, and I want to restore a day’s family heirloom. Even if repairing antique radios becomes my new main hobby, I might use these resistors for life, with a lifespan of 3 days.

They may be very suitable for circuit sculpture. They are more decorative than any modern decoration. Or maybe it's because a small QRP rig without a casing was made. Here comes the mites of Michigan.

"I will not let it be inserted unsupervised." "

How to install an appropriate size fuse in the device?

Yes, but some parts of the radio may become so hot that the power supplied through the fuse may be dangerous. Some parts should at least get hot. They sometimes use only resistors to lower the supply voltage. At that time they used cloth insulation and wax, and the safety standards are not now. I would really doubt anything old. It's not that you can't enjoy using it, but maybe don't put it on the shelf next to a bottle of methylated alcohol, but stay in the room to listen while plugged in.

I might also want to assemble a short-range AM transmitter and play some music from the 1940s/50s through it. Now listening to the radio trash through virtual antiques will annoy me!

A (possibly) interesting side note: an early radio manufacturer (Philco?) installed new lighting equipment, possibly mercury vapor lamps. The increased light level is welcome, but it makes certain colors indistinguishable.

Their solution is to have the engineer change some resistor values ​​to colors with fewer problems!

Nowadays, the same problem: The CRI of LED lighting is poor, and it is especially difficult to distinguish red: red, orange, gold, and brown are beginning to be similar to each other.

I also found this problem, so I installed a bunch of 95 CRI natural white LED strips (designated as 5000K, measured at 4900K) above the workbench, and now the color reproduction is very good.

There is only a 40-watt halogen lamp on my workbench. CRI = 100

40W halogen lamps do not have that much light output. I prefer 40-50W fluorescent lamps or LED lamps.

Although a few years ago, I still needed a short-term solution to overnight SMD assembly. The 300W or 500W halogen lamp achieves this purpose very well, except for its high heat output-it has been in early summer, dripping sweat will not act as a flux :-)

For spotlights, enough.

I think it depends on the phosphor. A single yellow phosphor, together with the blue LED on which they are based, will emit a "white" light, but I don't want to use it to light up my house. In particular, it is not necessary to identify the color under it. Again, although I will use a multimeter as much as possible.

If they add extra phosphors, they can get better light. The name from the appropriate manufacturer comes with an English or European name, at least a name with Latin letters (!) designated for lighting, which may be better for CRI. Put in some red, green and other phosphors to get the widest possible frequency band. The LED is monochromatic. Like every Ebay supplier that sells goods, cheap, nameless Ebay LEDs are purely price-based, and you can search for prices. Price-quality = profit, so quality is the enemy!

Many people have noticed that this may be a problem, but don't know why. The public's ignorance and boredom leads to one of the things that are shy. It's like politics!

The "better" CRI> 80 you can find in any supermarket without special order. They basically just add red phosphor to the yellow phosphor. It is difficult to find bulbs with CRI>90 anywhere, because 80 bulbs are a cheap manufacturing point for these products, and most consumers will not notice or care.

But this is still bad. Even if the CRI of the old compact fluorescent tube is> 87, and to have good color rendering, you want to be greater than 92.

When I discovered that our assemblers used 270K (red, violet, yellow) and 4K7 (yellow, violet, red) resistors interchangeably, I had to do something similar. The 270K resistor has an arbitrary RC time constant, so we switch to the adjacent value (220K or 330K). Close enough!

An older colleague of mine believes that E3 values ​​of 1, 2.2 and 4.7 are sufficient for most components :-)

It does feel that most of the old resistors on the earth are beginning to appear brown-black, red-red or yellow-purple. If I had to guess, the next most common value will start in blue-gray.

Using only those E3 values ​​in the gain circuit R/r, you can approximate the gains that are important in log10 mathematics-1, 2, and 5. Using the E3 series of only 30 years, that is, 9 total values, you can get about 0.01, 0.02, 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.5, 1, 2, 5, 10, 20, 50, 100, 200, 500.

The combination of two E3s in series (or an E3 with a 0 ohm jumper) can generate: 1, 2.2, 3.2, 4.4, 4.7, 5.4, 5.7, 6.9 and 9.4, which is a good starting point in the linear range. Adding the value of 6.8 can also generate 7.8 and 9.0.

Please correct your article, this is "Résistancesanciennes annees 50 by François Collard, CC-BY-SA 4.0".

When my grandfather passed away, I learned that he was in "resistance" and passed the British pilots from one place to another, through the forest.

Resistance is not in vain. Oh, sweet!

I like the simple three-letter system used for SMD parts, but the "new" EIA-96 is indeed PITA. I will never remember these things, always have to look for it. Measuring SMDs online is not always feasible, and sticking them in a confined space and removing them without damage will not be fun.

In any case, all this will soon disappear. Resistor manufacturing has started to stop printing values ​​on SMT resistors.

Mainly a few

#1) They can save $0.0000000002 and save ink cost by skipping the printing process.

#2) There is no value on the capacitor, and no one complains, so why do we do this to the resistor.

#3) The machine mainly installs them and does not need to read the value.

In the next few years, you will pay high prices for marked resistors.

#4. In any case, 01005 size SMD cannot be read.

First of all, I think they cannot be handled.

Among the many resistor manufacturers I deal with every day, none of them plan to delete the mark (due to the work of electronic contract manufacturers, I think there are at least 9)

1) The cost has nothing to do with the added value of the mark used for inspection and other post-processing. The resistor material is ideal for adding a marking step, so this is the reason for the standard process for resistors.

2) Due to material reasons, the cap is not marked. Labeling capacitors with standard methods will not lead to very obvious results. Manufacturers can use laser-based processes to obtain caps, but this adds considerable cost and is therefore not standard.

3) The perfection of the machine is only human-loaded machines and traceability tools used by manufacturers. After SMT, flying probe or ICT style tests are not always used to verify the assembly, and when a 10k resistor is loaded instead of a 20k resistor, the functional test cannot always capture, but it will affect the end user. Using AOI, AXI and visual inspection are more cost-effective solutions for quality management.

4) Yes, for 01005 and most 0201s, legibility is limited.

Can a typical AOI recognize the printed content on the resistor? Or is it not possible because ICT is more reliable?

The mnemonic-it is best to be right, otherwise your grand plan will go wrong-(black, brown, red, etc.-purple stands for purple) has helped many learners. Of course, there are also hard-shell variants, but this "clean" version is suitable for hybrid companies!

Bad beer rotten our young courage, but vodka is going well

Hey, Elliott!

What is the German who put the rose on the grave?

Oh, I do not know. I have to ask around.

Dutch: Zij Bracht Rozen Op Gerrits Graf Bij Vies Grauw Weer. I think she brought the rose to Gerrits' grave in the dirty gray weather

Al, I am glad you can cheer for your brother!

I just came here to say that I found a file that was stored decades ago...

Zij Zwart (black, 0)

Bracht Bruin (Brown, 1)

Rozen Rood (Red, 2)

Op Oranje (orange, 3)

Gerrits Geel (yel

Through cooperation with manufacturers such as Panasonic, LG and CATL, Telsa is one of the world's largest battery buyers. As the demand for electric vehicles and power storage continues to grow, their infinite desire for more batteries cannot be satisfied soon.

, Tesla has been working on various projects to upgrade battery technology to a new level in order to achieve the goal of reaching 3 TWh in annual output by 2030. The most interesting aspect is the announcement of Tesla’s new watch 4680 battery, which will be produced by the company itself. Let's take a look at why the 4680 is so exciting, and why setting the table is so important.

Tesla is different among electric car manufacturers because they firmly insist on using cylindrical cells in their battery packs, while other manufacturers have largely used prismatic designs. Starting from the ancient 18650 popular among notebook computer manufacturers and flashlight manufacturers, Tesla later switched to using larger 21700 batteries. The larger size means that each battery has a larger capacity. To construct these batteries, long, thin sheets of anode and cathode materials are stacked on top of each other with a separator material in between, and then rolled into a "jelly roll" to fit inside a cylinder. The anode and cathode usually have a small lug in the center of the rolled sheet to transfer power to the terminals on the battery case.

These small tabs block the cylindrical hole in a variety of ways. They act as a bottleneck for the current flowing into and out of the battery, because despite the large area of ​​the anode and cathode, all current flowing into and out of the battery must pass through a pair of tabs that are only a few millimeters wide. The electrons from the outer area of ​​the jelly must travel a long distance to reach the battery terminals. Among 21,700 batteries, the electron path length is up to 250 mm. Larger path length means greater resistance, which has a corresponding impact on thermal performance. In addition, these fins hinder efforts to efficiently and quickly produce anode and cathode sheets, and production machinery must be stopped and repeatedly started to cope with outstanding features.

When switching from the 18650 battery to the larger 21700 design, Tesla had previously improved performance, but efforts to further increase the battery size have encountered obstacles. Although larger batteries can store more energy and save production costs, heat dissipation issues mean that charging time and discharge rate will be adversely affected. Larger batteries mean longer path lengths, while higher resistance means less power output per battery and slower charging speeds. Even with Tesla's fast charging technology, many people still think that the charging speed of electric vehicles is too slow, so this is not a trade-off worth making.

Enter the "table" battery. The entire anode foil and cathode foil are not laser patterned, but are processed, and basically have many tiny tabs throughout the length, instead of connecting a small battery tab to the anode and the cathode. . It replaces the step of manually attaching a separate tab later in the manufacturing process.

When the anode, cathode, and separator are all rolled up, these many smaller tabs flatten out to form a "ribbon spiral," thereby creating a larger contact area between the active battery material and the casing. This means that the path length of electron propagation is greatly shortened. Tesla’s offer is 5 times lower than the previous design. This is due to the fact that electrons can now move directly to the battery terminals instead of having to go through a more round path to the center of the sheet to reach the single-terminal connection.

The final result is a 4680 battery with a diameter of 46 mm and a length of 80 mm. This is different from the five-digit nomenclature, but no one at Tesla can figure out why the tail of the 18650 battery is zero, so the company deleted it from the name of the new battery. It is said that due to the larger size of the new battery, its energy is 5 times that of the earlier design. Tesla claims that it is better that they can provide up to 6 times the power due to the reduced electrical path length of the table structure, which can provide better thermal performance. It is estimated that the conversion of 4,680 battery cells in a Tesla car battery pack could result in a maximum range gain of 16%-an impressive number considering the automaker’s already impressive numbers in this field. For example, the upcoming

Use 4680 batteries.

The new design also brings production benefits. By laser patterning the anode and cathode for direct connection instead of connecting separate tabs, the material can be processed through a continuous rolling process, which is no different from papermaking technology. This guarantees a huge increase in production speed, enabling the machine to move at a continuous high speed without having to constantly accelerate and decelerate in order to fix the tabs to each anode and cathode plate. Tesla's goal of producing more batteries to meet demand cannot actually be achieved with current production technology. Therefore, improving processing speed and production speed is the key to solving this problem. This will also result in lower costs, which is an important part of the company's efforts to produce more accessible electric vehicles at a price of $25,000.

These new batteries with higher energy density and high power output will attract a huge market for hackers and manufacturers. However, in Tesla's keynote speech, the continuing theme is that they simply cannot provide enough batteries to meet their needs. We suspect that because Tesla retains all its power for internal use, it will take several years for the desktop battery to enter the open market. Due to the benefits provided, other manufacturers may scramble to develop similar technologies, but this will take time, and at the same time, those who want the best cylindrical batteries will have to wait for new Teslas to appear in their local destruction field. .

The table technical announcement is only a small part of the Tesla Battery Day announcement. In order to achieve the company's lofty goal of increasing battery production to meet global demand, it is working hard to make progress in other areas such as anode and cathode chemistry and production technology. If electric transportation and Powerwall grid storage can truly change the world, then similar projects will have to be rewarded-otherwise we simply don't have batteries to fit in our cars!

Thank you for drawing without y axis. :(

This is a relative comparison, so it doesn't matter.

Correct. The label doesn't matter at all :)

Of course there is, it just has no labels!

B ^)

There is a y axis. It is labeled "Boost Time Increase" and has a scale ("0") on it. There are also some very faint horizontal lines suggesting (but not sure) that we are looking at a linear rather than a logarithmic scale...

The wider "tab" should also greatly help cool the battery and speed up the charging?

Yes, wider tabs (forms;) will help heating in two ways: First, less heat is generated by the resistance in the jelly roll, because the electrons only need to traverse ~40mm to the tab end instead of the larger ones Set the jelly roll on the roll ~600mm format as the center click. Second, the copper bottom conductor and possibly similar aluminum top conductor will act as a fast heat pipe for the battery. Aluminum and copper also have excellent thermal conductivity. The heat will be so great that the efficiency of the battery pack will be improved, and the cooling requirements will be greatly reduced.

As far as I know, due to the low resistance, the battery does not strain heat during charging and discharging (because electrons do not have to travel far). Heat is the limiting factor for charging and discharging (bad ignition), so it will reduce the time required for both while maintaining a similar heat output.

The change in current direction seems too obvious. Is there a separate innovation that makes this construction method possible, or is it just a situation that no one has tried before?

Dave also explained everything in detail :-)

Thank you! ask

Has Tesla considered a kilovolt laboratory series supercapacitor that can be charged in a few seconds?

The interesting thing about having such a "wide label" is that, to be honest, it is nothing new at all and has been on the market for a long time.

Both capacitors and batteries are suitable.

However, frankly speaking, there is no need to use such continuous labels. From a traditional single label to a single label at both ends, the battery performance can be more than doubled without worrying about folding the label into the package. But having more than two is of course still advantageous.

However, I want to know whether the near-continuous copper tube actually has an advantage, or it will only add more copper volume at both ends than its performance. Diminishing returns is one thing after all. Moreover, if you only increase the weight and reduce the density, then "wasting" copper on... is not a worthwhile thing.

That is, in the end, how often should a label appear, and how wide should it be for best performance?

Although, to be fair, electric vehicles should use more supercapacitors because their charge/discharge losses are much lower and their power density is much higher. However, the capacitor obviously should not completely replace the battery, but should be supplemented for acceleration and regenerative braking.

I want to know whether the super capacitor can be used as a "buffer" between the battery and the engine for regenerative braking/acceleration of spikes. However, given the performance of this new cell design, you can get all the benefits of caching through a highly simplified cell/packet structure.

The copper plate produced by the lugs at the bottom and the aluminum plate at the top also act as heat pipes, which is a very low resistance battery. Cooling will be greatly reduced/simplified.

The "accelerated" label design in their patent makes this work possible where others have failed. Instead of cutting the tabs at the backing paper spacing, the tab spacing bends upward (when drawing the figure) to create a "flat" tab end, as opposed to the bumps produced in other cases.

Amazing……:)

Compared with capacitors, the problem with capacitors is that their discharge curve is very steep.

Therefore, in fact it must be a separate group with a bidirectional DC-DC converter between them.

However, this does not prevent us from adding some regular 450 Vdc aluminum electrolytic covers to make things smoother.

Yes, increasing the number of lugs on the battery itself will help keep the battery cool.

But the same is true for super capacitor banks. (Because of such a battery pack, the battery does not really need to consume a lot of power. (Although charging is still a "problem", fast charging is bad for the battery, not only because of temperature-related issues.)

Just wait until someone manages to make a capacitor in the GF range.

I don't think I want to sit on it.

However, because our battery is too large, the battery can already meet everything needed for inrush current. We don't have a motor that can handle 2000A. The electric motor and the battery are fully matched, which can reach 0-60 times in 3 seconds per second (the latest and most expensive car is less than 2 seconds). I think the super capacitor used in the car is just a waste. Maybe it's a Formula One car or something, but it's not aimed at ordinary consumers.

In other words, although what you said is correct, it is unnecessary for consumer cars, and the small (small) benefits are not worth the complexity or cost.

Until you understand the manufacturing cost of the battery.

The impact of the product on the environment.

The weight of the vehicle increases, leading to increased road wear.

Now, some companies don't care about these details.

For example, Koenigsegg's battery discharge temperature is as high as 60C, which is quite difficult in terms of discharge efficiency. They, if anyone should use capacitors. But they did not...

Now, capacitors can provide many kA of output current and easily provide hundreds of kW of power.

But this is what you call "no need", and I agree.

But to get any meaningful amount of power from the battery, it needs to become very large.

And this kind of emissions will also be quite inefficient.

The battery has good efficiency at low discharge rates. For most lithium-based batteries, it is necessary to reach above 2-2.5 C, just like climbing Mount Everest. A battery can indeed provide enough power, but it burns more power due to the heat in the battery. Literally, this is what our scope becomes called heat.

A small capacitor bank can reduce the peak power consumption to a more reasonable level, thus ensuring that we do not waste the acceleration range.

It can also reduce the overall weight of the vehicle, not to mention the price.

The bidirectional DC-DC converter is not difficult to develop or manufacture. If it becomes a bottleneck, the capacitor bank is not a problem to a large extent. Because the energy required by the capacitor bank is about the same as the energy required by the vehicle when driving at "typical" highway speeds at its maximum rated weight.

Similarly, in terms of output current, our capacitors are logically most likely to be connected in series, so they may only provide hundreds of A or low kA at most, although they may be between 200-500 volts. (This is not very unreasonable. For example, the Tesla Model S has a total of 615 kW motors running at only 400 volts. Therefore, this is 1537.5 A, regardless of the loss of the drive system, so the peak current is higher)

That car uses a typical 18650 battery.

Configure it as 74 batteries in parallel, of which 6 batteries in series form a group.

16 groups of them are connected in series to form a complete battery pack.

This means that each battery cell requires a total of 400 volts, and each battery requires approximately 4.17 volts. (However, as the battery discharges, the 400 volt voltage will drop. More current is required to obtain a power output of 615 kW.)

But this also means that our 1.5 kA is only shared among 74 batteries. Or after fully charged, each battery is 20 amps.

If we generously say that the capacity of these 18650 batteries is 3 Ah, then they will be discharged at a temperature of 7C, which is much higher than 2-2.5C, and the discharge efficiency has climbed the wall...

Now, most people do not step on the pedal, but say that the 7C is a fully charged battery.

However, it can be said that there is 3.5 volts left in each cell.

Only use 2C (6 amps) among them. Then, we get 150 kW of power.

If our power transmission system is magical and the efficiency is 100%, then the speed from 0-100 km/h will take 11.6 seconds. (0-62.5 mph)

When driving a Tesla, few people step on the pedal.

in the end.

Batteries are very suitable for energy storage, but they lack the ability to operate efficiently.

> "With the fully matched motor and battery, you can get 0-60 times in 3 seconds"

Well, "perfect". Tesla's "ridiculous mode" only works when the battery is fully charged and exceeds a certain charge threshold, because they are moving towards the battery's discharge current limit. They filed a lawsuit in Norway for false advertising promoting accelerators because the Model S will reduce power when the battery is not fully charged.

If the chemical nature's inherent rapid charge/discharge efficiency is low, it is inevitable to heat up and limit the charge/discharge. If conductor loss is the main cause of heat generation during fast charging/discharging, then Tesla’s improvement makes heat generation 1/6 of the current problem, and the use of supercapacitors does not increase cost and complexity.

Supercapacitors are a useful supplement to battery packs, and their ESR and ESL are much lower than batteries. However, their energy density is much lower than batteries. Supercapacitors have high power density because of their low equivalent series resistance, so they are very useful for covering short-term current bursts. For example, the largest supercapacitor battery from Maxwell on the DigiKey website is 2.85V and 3400F. Quite big. However, in terms of battery, it is a 1.4Ah battery. It is larger than two D batteries (60mm D x 140mm L). This is not a good battery. But it can provide a 2000A burst without damage.

Yes. Supercapacitors are somewhat moderate in energy density.

In most applications, this is not a technology that can replace batteries.

However, due to their high power density, they do complement the battery well.

This reduces the peak current drawn from the battery pack, because the main power required for acceleration will come from the capacitor bank.

It is the same as regenerating electricity, where we can plug the energy back into the capacitor bank. And because of the extremely low charge/discharge loss, we can get a larger range.

Simply removing the acceleration-related load from the battery pack may increase the cruising range by itself. After all, compared with capacitors, battery chemistry itself is not that impressive in terms of ESR. (Adding more labels will only reduce the conductivity loss, and it will not have much effect on our chemical-related losses.)

But I have also seen that supercapacitors that target energy density are often less noticeable in terms of power density. Because they have fewer tags, and more tags will take up more space. (More tags also increase costs, and energy/dollars are the same thing.)

I looked at a bunch of capacitors and found that the energy density is about 35 kJ/kg, and the power density is also good (about 4-8 kW/kg), so a car driving 2 tons at a speed of 100 km/h has the same energy Density kinetic energy, because we can store it in a capacitor of about 44 kg. (Or about 175-350 kW output power (240-480 hp).) Although it is best to maintain a good discharge efficiency in the area, our battery can still provide a small amount of power.

But it is clear that we will have a larger capacitor bank so that we will never discharge it to a low enough voltage unless it becomes difficult to handle. (For example, the first volt of a 2.5 V 500F capacitor stores only 250 J, and the next 1.5 V stores 1312 joules (1562 joules in total), so when discharged below 1 volt, most of the energy is negligible. Increase The cost of the DC-DC complexity (to be precise, this line is a different issue, and 2.7 V or 2.8 V capacitors are also available on the market.)

Super capacitors are also quite bad in terms of self-discharge, collision safety, and fire safety.

Any capacitor that stores large amounts of energy under electrostatic tension is basically a bomb. You break the insulator and it immediately explodes.

Yes, compared to batteries, capacitors do have quite a bit of self-discharge.

But it was still so slow that it did not attract special attention for many hours.

In terms of collision and fire safety, they do pose a threat, but batteries also pose a threat.

When the battery is inserted, the main reason why the battery does not explode is due to the contact resistance between the shrapnel and the conductive sheet. Usually leads to self-fusion around the invasion. (After all, unlike the case where the contact area of ​​the lugs on the battery is much larger, intrusion will not keep them in good contact with the sheet.) The same is true for capacitors.

Regarding fire, batteries are not so safe...

Not to mention that both battery packs and capacitor packs can have protective casings around them to prevent physical damage and to prevent fires.

However, even the conventional fuel tank on an ordinary vehicle has its own risk in the event of a collision.

Of course it can, but it will take days or even months-if you retain any energy in the supercapacitor, you will lose a lot. When parking, the capacity of the capacitor will be exhausted, so if there is a kilowatt-hour there, you will lose a kilowatt-hour...

As for the puncture safety, the capacitor is different in nature, that is, the discharge is almost instantaneous and is not limited by the chemical reaction rate because it is electrostatic. A very large very large capacity capacitor is a trigger situation. Smaller faults may fuse, and larger faults will evaporate the material in an instant and completely explode the capacitor. The battery has not yet done so.

What you need to understand is that if the separator is damaged in a chemical battery, as long as there is a separator, the object that pierces the separator will provide electrical contact. In an electrostatic capacitor, different charge carriers are physically attracted to each other through the gap, and the whole thing is lost like a party balloon.

This is why storing large amounts of energy in electrostatic capacitors is a stupid idea. As an energy storage medium, it is like building a huge watch spring with ultra-high tensile strength steel, hopefully it will not get stuck.

When turning off the car, it is best to transfer the energy stored in the car to our battery pack. If we suddenly decide to start the car in the next short period of time, it can wait to do so.

But under normal circumstances, the discharge of the capacitor is not "fast". I left a 500F "ebay special" supercapacitor under a voltage of 2.5V for more than a month without losing more than 0.1V. Voltage. Therefore, I will not worry too much about self-discharge. (This is a supercapacitor, which emits much more electrical energy than batteries. Under constant current charging conditions, it also has linear charging characteristics for batteries.)

Similarly, the capacitor bank does not have to be too large and fair.

Because at full load and driving at a "reasonable" speed, we don't need to store kinetic energy equivalent to a car. Like 100-130 km/h (the typical highway speed in the world is this number).

For a 2-ton car, this is only equivalent to 2.6 MJ of energy, which is approximately equal to 0.72% of kWh. (2 tons are moving at a speed of 130 km/h.)

Therefore, a 1 kWh capacitor bank is only needed in very extreme cases, especially considering that some of the energy used during acceleration can still be provided by our battery bank. (The same goes for the story about regeneration disconnection. The capacitor bank only handles most of the power.)

In terms of security.

Considering the very thin conductive layer that constitutes the capacitor, it will be difficult to contact any intrusive objects. This is the main reason why lithium batteries often do not care about nails or hammers driving into them. The flakes surrounding the intrusion are fused at the intrusion by simply evaporating away.

Although, that is a nail. I haven't seen any tests for forcing through the equipment with a big blade. Since this may reduce the current density on the thin plate due to a larger contact area, it may make the phenomenon of equipment failure more obvious.

take a look

Especially youtube videos about security. They also cited an energy density of 70 Wh.kg. I have seen some of them run in residential applications, and apart from ergonomics, they compare well to the Tesla Wall. But they will be more durable than Tesla and maintain complete performance...

> Very poor contact with any invasion

Likewise, the separator in the capacitor will not do the same thing. In lithium ion batteries, the separator conducts electricity. In a capacitor, it is particularly non-conductive and separates the two halves of the battery.

After the insulator ruptures, the hole itself will leak charge, which will cause the capacitor to discharge itself quickly. Electrostatic discharge is not limited by the rate of chemical reactions such as batteries-all charges rush to the holes in the insulator. If the energy density of the capacitor is high, a plasma arc will be formed, which will emptied the capacitor and evaporate the material in an instant, causing an explosion.

Someone once said: "The best part is that there is no part." I bet someone will say that they will consider these issues in great detail. While considering cost, part weight and power density, it can even be compared to the rocket equation. Although it is impossible to imagine that someone like Elon would have heard of... ;-)

Reducing the number of parts can indeed reduce system complexity and lower prices.

However, since a single component rarely performs/execute a person's application well, people need to find complementary components that together can do better than two components alone.

For example, batteries do not like to output several tons of electricity at a given capacity, but they do have a considerable energy density.

Although the capacitor lacks glossy energy density. But on the other hand, they don't mind putting in literal kilowatts per kilogram with minimal losses.

Therefore, when we want short and very high power pulses, the two tend to complement each other well. It's like accelerating a car.

The disadvantage is that their discharge characteristics are completely different, so one or both of them need to have some DC-DC converters. (For automobiles, the DC-DC also needs to deal with regeneration interruption, but this can be the second DC-DC, but the bidirectional DC-DC is actually not difficult to design and manufacture. (especially if there is synchronous rectification, the actual It has two-way rectification, but only a suitable controller is missing.))

The biggest problem is the power generated by regenerative braking. It doesn't matter that the vehicle can travel at 60 miles per hour, because most cars slow down at roughly the same speed at the legal road speed. The super cap buffer can solve this problem. This problem is even more serious when electric drives are used on trucks. The electric engine in the train solves this problem by feeding power back to the duct.

Fortunately.

Capacitors don’t mind simply drawing power.

Unlike batteries, if a battery is charged much faster than 3C, it will sweat.

Even if they "happily" discharge at 7C.

Moreover, compared with batteries, the charge/discharge loss of capacitors is much lower.

In this way, regenerative braking can improve efficiency and is more feasible in practice because it can increase the driving range of electric vehicles in urban traffic. In urban traffic, start and stop are often more common, not just resistive combustion through resistance. Or friction.

I don't understand why capacitors are important here?

The low regeneration efficiency is not about storing electric energy, but about generating electricity. Converting mechanical motion into alternating current through a motor and then rectifying it into direct current is an inefficient place.

Currently, vehicles tend to regenerate at 1/3 to 1/6 of the maximum towing rate. The regenerative power of the bolt is 70kW, and the maximum power consumption is 160kW. In the case of Tesla, they regenerate (77kW) at 1/4 of the supercharging rate (250kW).

In other words, it is easy to store electrical energy in the battery-this is not a limitation or inefficiency-switching to a capacitor will not change the situation.

If the regenerative power is 10 times the power, then yes, you will have a point. Since both the extraction and storage capacity depends on the size of the battery, it will not change for large vehicles.

Musk talked about how to stop the production line to handle the label. A cover design like this avoids this, so it makes the production line move faster because it doesn't have to deal with acceleration restrictions.

In addition, continuous tabs will provide better thermal connectivity, which will also help the battery not to overheat.

Supercapacitors can further increase energy density and can actually completely replace batteries in electric vehicles. This is expected to be achieved within a few years or even three years. It has been used in forklifts and buses; however, in buses, they are too small to maintain a good driving distance and must be charged for a few seconds each time they stop. I actually used a supercapacitor AA battery in my computer mouse, it works normally and can be charged quickly. They provide more than one million cycles without degradation, and do not have the safety issues of lithium batteries, while being able to work at high temperatures without cooling. At the same time, the RTE of the supercapacitor battery is 99% DC-DC.

I suspect that excess copper at both ends can make money. It significantly reduces the overall resistance. Before you consider the high currents involved, the reduction in resistance seems small. In addition, the excess copper will greatly reduce the thermal resistance. Therefore, performance can be improved in three ways. First of all, since lower resistance = lower dissipation, the heat generated during charging and discharging is reduced. Secondly, due to the lower thermal resistance, the heat generated by the IS can be more effectively dissipated from the battery. Third, lower heat actually leads to lower resistance, because the resistance of (most) conductors increases with temperature. All of this means less power wasted, faster charging time, miles of distance when power drops, and significantly higher power density.

So when and where can we order them for our project?

If these products enter the open market, that would be great! I really want to prepare a set for my roamer.

Is Telsa one of the world's largest purchasers of telecommunications equipment?

Yes, it's funny, the first word is misspelled and is a good way to start...

I heard that the trailing zero means cylindrical.

In retrospect, the thickness of CR2032 is 3.2mm, maybe the convention is to measure the height as 1/10mm.

Yes, I think so. They said it was strange that they couldn't figure it out when it was obviously based on cells under 10mm, or even a quick Google search result.

Quote:

After October 1990, round cells were systematically identified based on their diameter and height.

/Quote

If Tesla (employees) cannot read Wikipedia, then he may not be so smart.

It makes sense for all button batteries that use a tenth of a millimeter resolution, but just because the battery is slightly larger and deviates from the standard does not, at least not to me.

The discussion on this is only Tesla’s free advertising. This is probably the biggest reason for this.

I am also surprised that this reaches hackaday. For some strange reason, it seems that this completely non-problem with batteries has been hyped up, which has been used in foil capacitors and high-discharge batteries for many years. This may even use paper-wound capacitors more than 80 years old.

These are huge advancements in battery technology, I like to read on hackaday

Well, my opinion is that this reduces manufacturing cost/time more than anything else. For example, when you realize that the volume of the battery has increased 5.5 times, the claimed 5-fold increase in energy storage and 6-fold increase in power are not impressive. It seems that the energy storage density has dropped, which may be due to the volume loss at the end of the battery.

I also don't believe in the so-called thermal improvement. Of course, it seems to dissipate heat faster, but if it doesn't significantly change the self-heating in the battery, then it won't change the amount of heat you have to deal with. It still has to go somewhere, and transferring heat from inside the battery to the terminal is only a small part of it. Basically, what it does is solve the problems caused by increasing the cell size.

In other words, I am not drinking Tesla Kurt aid. They have a strong marketing team, but there is no reason to believe that they have accomplished incredible feats that no one else can.

The bigger step is to allow the use of the central hole of the battery for cooling.

I know that liquids usually don't hold together well, but why not use a non-conductive liquid (better than air) to cool the battery "inside".

When batteries are stacked in series, ducts are naturally formed. This way you can cool the cells from outside and inside; it would be better, wouldn't it?

Gray-yes, it does change the self-heating inside the battery-this is a factor of resistance. As mentioned in the article and Tesla's introduction, since the path that the current must pass is significantly reduced, the resistance is greatly reduced, and the amount of heat generated is also greatly reduced.

@phone

Understand that with a single-pole design, the current flows from the farthest layer to the place where the tabs are connected. With a continuous tab design, current must only flow from one side of the layer to the other. The shorter the length of the resistive material means the lower the resistance. Such fairness will inevitably reduce internal resistance.

But my point is that we haven't seen any data showing how much the reduction is, especially when compared to the resistance of the entire battery. For a battery as large as 4680, I guess there may be a conductor resistance of a few mOhm, but if it exceeds 10% of the battery's DC resistance, in other words, it is only enough to offset the heat, I would be surprised. Problems caused by increased diameter. I'm guessing, but I don't mind seeing some real data.

And I mean, this is an achievement in reducing manufacturing costs, not an achievement in battery technology. How to extend the battery life by 16%? I'm pretty sure they are just using cost savings to expand packaging. They must increase it by about 28% to offset the reduced energy density of the new battery.

Note that the graph provided by Tesla marks the y-axis as "boost time increase". No matter what this means, it is not real data, but market hype. Beware of all hypothetical "data" without units and measurements, nor full descriptions. For 4650, the difference may be 5 seconds and 5 hours, or 5 seconds and 5 minutes. who knows?

Generally agreed, yes. But we did mention some numbers.

Tesla said that the current path is reduced from 250mm to 50mm, so the average distance is one-fifth. Since all the heat generated in the battery is proportional to this, only one-fifth of the heat. In addition, since the table design has better thermal conductivity in the entire battery, the overall heat dissipation capacity is also better. Therefore, your calories are only one-fifth and it is easier to remove. Since this is the basic limitation of fast charging, I think we can expect a big improvement. But yes, all of this is now market hype. Let us see what it actually is.

Please note that, in fact, we don't actually need to pressurize so fast. We are already very close or close to the best location (IMHO, this is the best location 180 miles in 15 minutes). Therefore, all we need is a slight improvement and a longer service life, which will undoubtedly provide these advantages.

Telek, sorry for your delayed response, but I want to be more thorough.

I am not a battery expert, but I think that all the heat generated in the battery is directly proportional to the Joule heat in the copper foil, which is incorrect. On the one hand, the current also flows through the electrolyte, the resistance will have a finite resistance, and there may also be resistance from the electrolyte to the lithium and graphite electrodes to the copper anode and aluminum cathode. The chemical reaction that occurs also affects the heat, but during the charging process, it is endothermic (cooling) and is not important compared to the heat generated, so I will ignore it.

The typical copper foil used for the anode in the 18650 battery is about 6-10 microns, with about 18 layers (layer thickness slightly less than 0.5 mm). We can easily calculate the conductor resistance of copper foil:

–Assuming that the foil is only 6 microns thick, using a copper resistance of 1.68e-8 Ohm-m, and assuming the height is about 60 mm (at least 5 mm will enter the terminal, etc.), the foil resistance per m length is 1.68e-8 Ohm -m / (0.000006 m * 0.060 m) = 46.67 mOhm / m.

– Assuming that the average layer length is half of the battery circumference, we can estimate the length of the foil. The length of the outer layer is (18 mm * 3.14) / 2 = 28.26 mm. For 18 layers, it is 509 mm. Please note that when comparing it to Tesla’s 250mm length, they must refer to the average length of the current path, and must also be compared to a 2-label or multi-label design, because even considering the Inaccuracy, I think it is too short for a battery of that diameter.

– Taken together, the total resistance of the entire foil is 46.67 mOhm / m * 0.509 m = 23.8 mOhm.

– Assuming that the resistance of the aluminum cathode foil is about the same, the total conductor resistance of the two is about 45-50 mOhm. Keep in mind that this is made with 6 micron foil, and for power optimized batteries, its thickness may be 10 microns or even thicker.

– Compare it with the typical DC internal resistance of an 18650 battery in the range of 80-100 mOhm, and consider the fact that internal resistance increases with age, which means that in addition to resistance, there are other factors that will affect Conductor of internal resistance.

It is now used for 18650 batteries, and we can certainly get more information. Consider the size of the 4680 battery: as the diameter of the battery increases, the length of the anode will become longer and the width of the electrolyte layer will become wider. Therefore, with the single-tab design, it is possible to reduce the ratio of the resistance generated by the electrolyte etc. to the same ratio as the increase of the anode/cathode resistance.

Looking back, I estimated that the anode resistance should be less than 10% of the total internal resistance, which is very low. It might be more like 40-50%. Therefore, reducing the anode resistance by 80% can reduce the total resistance by about 40%, which is not trivial, but not 80%. So I met you somewhere in the middle.

Thermal characteristics information during charging/discharging:

Internal construction information:

It should also be noted that in this article, there is a linked IEEE paper that provides some insights on the impact of the number of tabs on performance, and suggests that the current density improvement obtained by adding tabs is better for large units than for small units. Is important. It may also be a factor that prompted Tesla to use continuous labels.

It is indeed very smart, and can effectively charge each layer in parallel and discharge in series. The voltage doubler in the battery world.

I don't know where you got this idea. To be precise, they can be charged and discharged in parallel, but this is not like there are separate pieces here, but just a single large chaff rolled up together.

I think I miss it. That said. It might be interesting to create a battery that can be charged in parallel and discharged in series (and vice versa). There is no doubt that people smarter than me are doing this kind of work.

There is no meaning (or very little meaning). Remember, this is mainly about power, and the average distribution/extraction of power is done from each unit, regardless of its layout. If anything, you want more serial because you want higher voltage and less current.

For example, if you bring batteries and use the 96S3P configuration in 288 cells, 96 cells in series with 3 cells in series in each battery pack will get a voltage of 400V. This is what Chevrolet Bolt has. So far, most vehicles have good reasons to adopt the 400V standard. Some will reach 800V.

Parallel charging will not change anything. If you can somehow magically switch it to 48S6P (more parallelization), then you will get a voltage of 200V, but the current is doubled (so it is now four times lost). This backfired.

Serial charging is not better – of course, you can use 192S2P (if we have 50% more batteries – it’s another problem in itself and the cost is higher), but now your voltage is 800V – higher voltages need to be More insulation and isolation of lines and circuits between transmissions. Use this function only when the required power exceeds 400V, mainly for charging considerations.

Remember-if your battery pack with 288 cells has a power of 72kW, then regardless of the series/parallel arrangement, the power of each battery pack is 250W.

My friend built an electric car with Audi V8. This is indeed the part that hinders the usability of the car. He built a battery module using 18650 batteries connected in series to achieve a nominal voltage of 48V. As the series resistance increases, this will hinder the maximum charging current and cause heat dissipation problems. Now the batteries in the module can be charged in parallel...

Reply to Yossi:

But this is done through DIY settings, mass production vehicles are 400V or 800V, so there is no restriction.

Hmm... As a home hacker, I will not be able to buy these products, so it is not very interesting. For all the advancements in lithium-ion battery manufacturing, I personally have seen that average prices have stagnated for the past 5 years. Consumers buy 10s-100s batteries. BMS chips and charging circuits are still expensive. The entire industry has almost stagnated.

It is tempting to sell local BMS and lithium-ion charging boards suitable for different voltages at first, but there is a factor of responsibility, so maybe not laugh out loud.

I am a little confused about this. They claim to have 5 times the energy, 6 times the power and 16% range. However, the new cell is 5.5 times the old cell. Therefore, I don't think the numbers will line up-unless I missed something? Should the range/energy number at least scale with the size? I know that the energy density will increase (this increases our range by 16%), but why is the energy number *less than* 5.5 times the volume difference? That is, it should be 5.5 * 1.16 = 6.4x energy. Similarly, as the heat decreases significantly (the boost chart shows about 1/10 of the resistance), should the power value increase significantly?

I immediately thought these numbers had been turned away by the marketing department.

If they can make lithium-ion batteries with an energy density five times higher than their competitors, you will hear it through different channels.

I am also not sure if I dare to approach this battery.

The power of 4680 batteries may be 5 times that of old batteries, but their capacity is also much larger. There cannot be more than one in the same area. It is more efficient due to reduced packaging materials and interconnections. Coupled with advances in battery chemistry, your mileage has increased by 16%.

Yes, but I have already introduced it. The size of the unit is 5.5 times that of the old unit. Therefore, there should be at least 5.5 times the energy, otherwise it won't make sense-as I mentioned, this will not add an additional range of 16%.

The energy density of the battery seems to be lower, but this is offset by its lower ESR. This translates into lower heat generation, which leads to higher efficiency, and less restrictive cooling systems (also combined with the lower thermal resistance of the new "tab"), which translates to lighter battery packs Or less cooling energy.

All in all, I think it is feasible to increase the range by 16%; energy is just being used more efficiently.

In order to do this, if the density is small, the loss in the current design between the battery and the motor must far exceed 16%, but the efficiency of this new system will increase by 16%. The loss in current designs may be close to 2%. So that cannot be the reason. The efficiency loss between the wall and the wheels only accounts for 20% of the total loss, half of which is in charging, and most of the rest is in the inverter and electric motor. The discharge efficiency of lithium ions is usually above 99%.

I think the missing part is that they don't need as many parallel batteries as smaller batteries, so the same total volume and fewer batteries in parallel can get a larger current capacity.

Power is not the same as energy capacity, so this is not the problem. Using the same technology, twice the size of a battery can provide twice the power and twice the energy. Therefore, there are other things at work.

Fewer cells.

Gibe

The table design allows the battery to discharge faster.

For a given volume, less volume will be absorbed by the shell.

When you do actual engineering, few things will scale linearly.

Although the energy of a single battery is 5 times higher, because they are larger, each battery cannot accommodate as many as 18650 battery packs. On the contrary, reducing the use of a single battery and the increased efficiency brought about by lower resistance means that you can get 16% of the extra range.

As for why the battery has to be 5.5 times larger, but only 5 times the energy, well, there may be some packaging considerations, different wall thicknesses, etc... Nothing is perfect.

The last zero represents a cylindrical element

So, what is the end of the flat battery name?

The price of Tesla cars is still three times higher than the price required for large-scale market penetration under the traditional ownership and use rights system, and there is no battery label engineering technology that can help achieve this goal. The entire battery technology (among other things) needs to be changed to truly compete with traditional vehicles, and even vehicles running more expensive synthetic fuels, to make them carbon neutral.

three times? So, should a new electric car start at $12,000?

Their goal is to reach US$25,000 in 5 years. In the US, the average price of a new car is US$37,000... Therefore, I think they are actually far below the required price, especially considering the operating cost is 1/ 4. And you can save $1-2k per year. Did not even consider the reduction in depreciation. Literally, in 5 years, you will lose less money by buying Model 3 on almost all other models, and this is just before the price they are targeting drops by $10,000.

> "So, the starting price of a new electric car should be $12,000?"

Yes. This is the entry-level price for a new cheap gasoline car or a used car around 8-10 years old. For example, in Europe, the Renault Logan car starts at $10,400 (approximately £8,000), or if you want to upgrade to a higher level, you can buy a car in the US starting at $15,925 Modern Accent.

Most people will buy new or used cars for less than $20,000. The second-hand market accounts for more than 70% of all cars sold. The illusion of a "mid-priced" car priced at $35,000 or an illusion caused only by considering a new car, including trucks and SUVs that are more expensive by default.

So yes, if you want mass market penetration, you must target a $12,000. The price of electric vehicles is about three times the real public appeal, especially since the batteries are about to run out and need to be replaced, so their second-hand value is very low, so the second-hand value of electric vehicles is low. They are going to the junkyard.

No, most people will not buy a car for less than $20,000. Not far

Yes, there are about 20-25k models in the light vehicle market, but this is less than a quarter of sales. In December 2019, 75% of new vehicle sales were light trucks/pickups/SUVs. That's where the average price is over $40k.

No, the price of an electric car is three times that. Many reports clearly indicate that at today's prices, the current break-even point of owning an electric car is around 5-10 years, and it will be cheaper than an equivalent gasoline car from then on. By 2025, the upfront cost of electric vehicles and gasoline vehicles will be equivalent to more than 80% of the vehicles sold (this means that the break-even point is 0 days). By then, even cheap vehicles, this will still be due to greatly reduced operations and maintenance. Cost, so it reached a 5-year break-even point. So, spend $20,000 to buy a cheaper gasoline car, or spend $25,000 to buy a better electric car, and get back $5,000 in 5 years, and then you can save money.

Similarly, no, the replacement cost of a depleted battery is not very high. Today's batteries (except for the strange leaves) have effective thermal management functions and are expected to last 15 to 20 years. Even within 10 years, the replacement cost will reach 5-10k *max*, and these batteries can still be used for grid storage. Even if they are not, they can be recycled. They will not be sent to the scrapyard.

I have learned that even if you recently said that it was 5 years ago, this is true, but things have changed so fast and the speed of change is still increasing. We are indeed at an industry turning point.

Yes, they do. If you want to talk about the mass market, you are talking about only 75% of the market for second-hand or cheap economy cars that can afford MRSP well below $20,000.

This is the illusion of car price statistics. New cars account for only a small part of the actual market.

>Today's battery... is expected to last 15-20 years.

Do not. Some batteries have a shelf life of up to 20 years (lithium titanate), but they are different from the low-cost, high-energy-density chemicals used in cars. The NMC battery has a history of about 15 years, but because of the high cost of cobalt, companies such as Tesla do not use NMC in cars.

The battery can reach its full shelf life (the number of cycles is very low) only if you do not actually use the battery. Higher energy is a compromise between shelf life and fire safety. Manufacturers optimize more scope at lower cost instead of life (longer time = higher sales). The actual service life of almost all EV batteries on the market is only 10-12 years.

> There are about 20-25k models in the light vehicle market, but this is less than a quarter of sales

Pick cherries by choosing a small part of the distribution. Taking a car between 0-25k is about half the price of a new car sold.

Since people cannot afford to change cars, people have extended the storage period of cars. The average age of vehicles has been steadily increasing over the years. Do as they say, fix it.

>Recover $5k in 5 years,

Unless you lose at least $5k due to depreciation of resale value, no one will pay a high price for a second-hand EV with a failed battery.

It is a myth that maintenance costs are greatly reduced. You still have to regularly replace (battery coolant) hydraulic oil and brake parts, shock absorbers, tires, and if you do not follow expensive regular inspections, you will lose your warranty. In addition, because there is no mature third-party parts market, spare parts are expensive.

More precisely, the US auto market is "bimodal." Some people buy cheap cars, some people buy expensive cars, and some are expensive, which pushes up the average price. In fact, few people actually buy a car at an "average" price.

Furthermore, due to battery life issues, electric vehicles can hardly reach the second-hand market. The technical life of ordinary cars is about 20 to 25 years, and since then they have cracked and repairs are no longer worthwhile. Electric cars will reach the same level in the half-life, because the cost of the battery is about one-third of the price of a new car-far more than the price of an ordinary car in the 10-12 age group that needs to replace the battery. It is cheaper to scrap an electric car and buy another used gasoline car.

I think your numbers are pretty good. Most vehicles outside the southern region will not have a service life of 20-25. Because the body is falling apart, or the repair costs exceed the value of the vehicle, it is difficult to see vehicles from the 1990s in the north at this time.

The batteries in today's cars (don't look at the leaves) are easy to last for 10 to 20 years, and because the complexity of electric cars is greatly reduced, the life of the rest of the car will be as long. We fully hope that the original battery life of most modern electric vehicles will reach 15-20 years, and the replacement amount will be between 5-10k. The second-hand and refurbished markets have begun to rise.

Yes, the market may be bimodal, but relatively speaking, few people buy brand new cheap cars. Yes, there are about 20-25k models in the light vehicle market, but this is less than a quarter of sales. In December 2019, 75% of new vehicle sales were light trucks/pickups/SUVs. That is the average price is $45k+. Therefore, those who are actually buying a new car don't actually have to worry about diving, and if they need to spend $5-10k to replace the battery in 15 years, it won't be a big deal.

"I think your numbers are pretty good. Most vehicles outside the southern region will not have a service life of 20-25. Because of the collapse of the body, or because the repair costs exceed the value of the vehicle, it is difficult to see 1990 in the north. Vehicles of the age."

You may wish to be unclear here. If "Northern" means "New England" here, I can buy it. But definitely not the Central American states. It is 2020 now. Twenty years ago was 2000. There are now *large* 2000 models and early cars still on the road.

"Or the repair cost exceeds the value of the vehicle."

Why is repair cost more important than vehicle value? Repair costs are less than *buying a new car*.

How many are there?

According to statistics, in the United States, the average age of cars on the road is 12 years old, and more than 25% are over 16 years old. However, less than 1% of the time over 25 years. So no, there are not many vehicles over the age of 20 on the *entire* roads in the United States. I can't find a specific figure for 20 years, but from the outside, it is probably 5%.

Maintenance costs are absolutely more important than vehicle value. Because why spend $5,000 to repair a car worth $3,000, and I can only scrap it and buy another used car for $3,000?

But, more importantly, people are more likely to start buying better or newer cars after their old cars die.

Having said that, I am not sure why this is part of the debate. Those who buy a new car (and that's all here) spend at least $25k almost all of the time, and on average 75% of the time is $45k+. Therefore, Tesla's new price point target is the "bottom end" of new car sales.

The cost saved in the process of owning a vehicle will be more than twice the cost of replacing the battery, so this is not a problem at all.

> But less than 1% over 25 years

Yes, it is rare to keep a car between 20 and 25 o'clock, because you basically have to refurbish it to keep it. This is what the statistics show. That is the technical life of ordinary cars: that is when people stop maintaining them and just put them on the ground.

The starting point for technical life and replacement costs is the same: when the cost of buying another bearing is lower than the cost of keeping the old one, the old metal value is scrapped. The average retirement age of cars is actually much lower, between 14 and 15, but this includes crashes and other accidents.

> In December 2019, 75% of new vehicle sales were light trucks/pickups/SUVs.

Yes, but guess what, electric vehicles are not competitive in the truck, pickup and SUV market because of their poor actual towing tax range. Cybertruck made a joke.

Almost all electric cars on the market are cars or hatchbacks. You will make the wrong comparison because SUVs of $45k have been added at the same time, and those who are considering choosing between EVs and conventional cars will still not buy them.

Second, light and medium truck pickups are purchased as work vehicles, and their turnover is high because companies and businesses only keep them for 4-5 years before throwing them on the second-hand market and buying another one.

Okay, here are a few things to sort out.

First, the initial view was that people did not have enough money to buy electric cars. Since the price of 75%+ vehicles is $45k+, this is obviously not the case, and of course there is no need for EVs to be one-third of the current price.

Secondly, in more than 75% of the trucks/off-road vehicles sold, do you think that all the functions *actually used*, and how many functions can be handled by electric vehicles? 5%? 10%? Most people never or rarely use large vehicles to tow or tow. They only like size and "safety", and the ability to travel with their family and luggage, or worse, they only like appearance.

Third, how often do people drag and need the entire vehicle? Today we already have electric cars that can be towed. As long as you can walk around during the day and still place it in an open area (or reach the workplace), then you have enough range. This focus on scope is bizarre and a relic of the old age.

Finally, you are not paying attention to the market. By the end of next year, there will be several electric trucks on the market. F150, Hummer, Cyber ​​truck, etc. These will have the required range and towing capacity. Those will compete in the current ICE market where prices are excessively inflated and will easily be price competitive. By 2025, there will be more than 100 EV models on the road at a price parity, and only a few manufacturers will only adopt EVs.

Yes, only a very small number of heavy users will be satisfied until 2025, but this is only a small part of the market segment.

If you can get the 2009 Prius for less than 120,000 miles for $4,000, your life is much better than buying a new car, and you can save a lot of fuel.

"Three times? So, the starting price of a new electric car should be $12,000?"

Legal electric golf carts on the street.

Instead of having to

Instead of having to keep accelerating

Than the word. You used the correct word here

Instead of having a small battery label

"These new batteries with higher energy density and high power output will attract a huge market for hackers and manufacturers."

I am pretty sure this is incorrect.

4680 does not have a higher energy density; in fact, the energy contained per unit volume is even less than 21700 batteries (otherwise it should be increased by 5.4).

Due to its lower ESR and better thermal performance, it is more efficient.

But the range has increased by 16%? I don’t think the marketers really use the exact numbers.

SMD bottle caps have been doing this for decades. Until now, has no one thought of manufacturing batteries in this way?

In fact, for many years, there are indeed some lithium battery packs with higher C ratings that can do this.

There is really nothing new.

But traditionally, they are flat packs, not round batteries, but to be fair, they are not even new for round batteries...

Nothing new here...

This method of alternately extending the anode film and the cathode film beyond the end of the dielectric film, rolling or folding the film, and then fixing the connection to the end of the cylinder or folding the laminate has been the production method of film capacitors for many years. After the Swiss engineer Max Schoop (Max Schoop) put forward this idea, the technology was called "Schoopage". [1]

Coincidentally, it turns out that Big Clive recently released a YouTube video on the subject with the title: "Will Tesla's table cells use Schoopage?" [2]

1. Film capacitor-Wikipedia, search for "schoopage" and "Max Schoop".

2. Will Tesla's dining table unit use Schoopage? Big Clive.

The cars made by Tesla (reminded me of "Edsel") are impractical, so it is nice to know that they have contributed to the world through battery technology.

Well, Tesla has been in production for many years than Edsel.

I'm not sure to compare production quantities...

>Meanwhile, those who want the best cylindrical battery will have to wait for a new Tesla to appear in their local destruction field.

I wish them chiseled out of the epoxy honeycomb!

We are hackers...

We will do what is necessary!

"But no one at Tesla can figure out why the trailing zero of 18650 batteries"

Tesla engineers must be stupid.

You can also see the nomenclature of button batteries, such as 1632 x 16mm. The height is in feet, obviously the radius is not needed.

But please consider that by reducing the final zero, they will save all the weight! Just like Jeff, the cyclist, "Pearls Before Pigs":

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